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Like the topic says, I am starting out but I am hesitant to play an army that alot of people play. What do you guys think? Should I be hesitant? Does it bother you to play a popular/unpopular army? I like all the races... can you make a case for your race for me so I can decide?
To be brutally honest, if you are just starting out, try and use a friends army/local club worker or the like so you are Learning to play, yet not spending lots of monies.
I'd have to advocate going with a Marine army, due to their forgiving Troops, and all round adaptability to most situations. Chaos Marines are fun and evil, and can only get better in the future! (Daemon codex). Awesome place to start. Tyranids are also a cool place to start, even if they have some fiddly rules- big and small gribblies, guns based off their stat line, fearless and never run etc.
I started out getting bits and pieces of armies all over the place, but until I learnt a bit of the rules and became a little more independant with that, I didn't know how to go about with building an army. All I'm really saying is, use someone else's army if you can and play as much as possible, learn whatever you can, and make a huge amount of mistakes (the easiest way to imprint rules into your mind). From then on, you'll just have a 'feeling' on what you like and don't, and what strikes you as cool and what not, your army will eventually build itself! You'll also pick up the game far quicker than taking on the hobby all at once, in my opinion ;Y
LO RULESOriginally Posted by Jaffar_Hasad
I'd recommend you just pick whichever army has the background/fluff/flavour which appeals the most. For example, I love the idea of a doomed race of fallen noble guardians, so I play Eldar. Their models also look very cool.
If the "fluff" doesn't interest you, then I'd suggest choosing an army which has a tactical play-style you enjoy. E.G:
(and feel free to correct my perceptions anyone, I haven't played as/against every army and this is all just IMHO and I know that you can tailor all armies to a degree, but I believe they all still have a basic theme)
All round solid
Marines/Orks (former more specialised/expensive (points wise), latter more random & cc orientated)
Chaos/Necrons (former being more cc, latter being more shooty)
(I've never met anyone who plays Witchhunters/Daemonhunters as a full army, they mostly just seem to get used as "allies", so not sure where they would fit in).
Daemonhunters (that's straight Grey Knights) are basically ubermarines. All round solid, and excessively so. However, they are freaking expensive, both in points and money. Witchhunters (straight Sisters) are again like marines, but a bit less solid. However, they are cheaper in points, so you can get more of them. They have some funky Faith abilities as well.
Inquisition (aka the =][=) is a combination of both, with some Inquisitorial Storm Trooper guardsmen thrown in for good measure. I have to say, they're probably the best all-round army in terms of having troops for any purpose. Guardsmen for bulk, Sisters (Witchhunters) for anti-tank (melta & Excorcists) and anti-swarm (flamers and Immolator), and Grey Knights for serious hardcore death. Plus they've got some funky specialised units in the form of Assassins, Arco-flagellants, and Daemonhosts (don't know if you can field them in a mixed army though).
The only drawbacks are they're ruinously expensive (10 Sisters of Battle sets you back £20. 5 Grey Knights £15. 5 Grey Knight Terminators a silly £45), and have a lot of complicated rules. The =][= is probably not the best option for your first army. However, if you feel like being different, don't mind a steep learning curve, have money to burn, and (most of all) feel an urgent need to purge the world of heretics, it would be an excellent army.
Right, that's the argument for someone elses race, now the argument for mine. :D
Why You Should Collect Tyranids:
Obviously there are some downsides to 'nids. Some of the rules are a bit hard to grasp (varying strength weapons always throws people for a loop). Even worse, some people view 'nids as "cheesy". However, just ignore them. They're just jealous because they don't have 4 arms and enough psychic power to blow a planet through the Warp and out the other side. D:
- They're not oversubscribed. Not like Marines, where every man and his dog has a chapter. To put it into perspective, I'm the first person at my club to play 'Nids for a decade. I don't think they're usually as rare as that, but some people see them as a surprise.
- They're incredibly easy to paint. Seriously, you can get a good-looking army with only three paints and a spray can. Obviously going into more detail requires more paints (I think I'm on about... 8? 9?) but you can still[ production-line the smaller gribblies 6 to the hour. Which is damn quick for me and 40K. D:
- That's another point. Gribblies. They're the most alien race in 40K. They look alien. Nothing about them even hints at humanity. They operate on a completely different wavelength. The Ork, Chaos, Tau... they can be reasoned with. Trying to negotiate with a Tyranid would just end with it looking blankly at you, then eating you anyway.
- Ooh! Eating! That's another point! We eat planets. How cool is that?
- You may have noticed they aren't exactly good guys. To me, that's a plus point. To others, it doesn't matter. To others still, it's a negative. Take it as you will.
- They're probably the most flexible army in the game. Yes, even more than Marines. You can go all-shooting, all-combat, or somewhere in between. You can field hordes of tiny bugs or a handful of colossal lumbering godzillas. An incredibly fast army geared to getting into CC by turn 2, or a slow methodical army that makes it to the other side of the battlefield by sheer weight of bodies and number of shots. An all-flying swarm, or maybe a vanguard army of infiltrators. Basically, whatever the hell you feel like.
- Synapse basically excludes you from the bane that is Morale Tests; the most feared and despised section of the 40K rules.
- They're not ruinously expensive. Seriously, the 'nid battleforce is probably the best bargain GW do. The big gribblies like the Hive Tyrant might make you wince in terms of cash, and a few of the specialist units are overpriced (I'm thinking Gargoyles), but those monsters at the core of a 'nid army ('Fex, gaunts, stealers, warriors) are as cheap as it gets, really.
- Spore Mines. That's an excuse by itself, really. 'Specially the 7" template ones in the new Imperial Armour. Need to get me some of them.
Unnecessarily merciless since 1998
wow thanks for that post !!8Y
anyone else have arguments for their race? I was looking also at the new orks or necrons
i prefer cc but i hear necrons can make a fast cc army?
Necrons... don't do combat. At all, really.
Okay, C'Tan can, but that's because they're freaking Star Gods. On the other hand, Flayed Ones are sub-par, and Pariahs just suck. Yes, they ignore all saves, but they're slow, only have one attack, have poor armour, and cost WAY too many points. The other Necron units are based around shooting, or are Scarabs.
And swarms aren't very good any more.
Orcs are CC, but I don't know about fast. Reliable fast, anyway. I just see Trukks as walking (wheeling?) Venom Cannon targets. I haven't played with or against them much though, so someone feel free to correct me about that.
If you want fast CC, the best are probably:
Eldar/Dark Eldar are probably best for fast CC, though. Orcs and 'Nids are fantastic CC, but a bit slower. On the other hand, Orcs and 'Nids are easier to play with.
- Eldar: Eldar are fast in general, and their CC can be very fast when mounted up in a transport. However, their ranged weaponry is better; fast ranged weaponry though. Not a static gunline a la Tau and Guard, but a load of Wave Serpents and Falcons zooming round the battlefield delivering retribution to where it's needed. Not saying their CC is weak though. In the right place, Scorpions and Banshees are horrible, and Harlequins just hurt everywhere.
- Dark Eldar: At least as fast as their vanilla cousins, if not more so. Much more CC orientated as well. Incredibly hard to use, though. Probably the most tactical army in 40K.
- 'Nids. Surprise! Leaping doubles your charge range. Winged doubles your movement. Scuttle gives an extra move before the game starts. Fleet gives a D6" move instead of shooting. Most things in the Tyranid army can have at least one of the above.
Unnecessarily merciless since 1998
In my n00bish opinion, I wouldn't really consider the Eldars a good fast close combat race... yes, they can do close combat, and get there pretty fast, but they're really more of a hit and run type, emphasis on running if you focus purely on CC with them. :p
I believe that if you want pure CC that can get into melee range asap, go with the Tyrannids. (or at least 3rd ed believe, as I had a Nid player scaring me with tales of flying
monkeysgaunts.) Toss in a few monstrous creatures to peel apart some tanks and you got it made.
However, if you want to play the Orcs, play the Orcs. Sure da boys might need some rickety trukks if they want to get into melee range like right now, but if you could wait an extra turn or two you could have them footslogging away like a green tide full of choppas. Also unlike the icky Nids or the Eldar with the silly hats, the Orcs got a right bit of personality *insert Orc chortle here*. Toss in a good dose of British football slang, say dakkadakkadakka when you're shooting them up, all good fun. ^^
Well, you say you want a fast combat army, yes Eldar are faster, as are Dark Eldar. Nids can be.
But do they have Daemon Princes? Gigantic Daemonic Walking Spiders with guns blowing away a squad before engaging and ripping your opponents prized HQ to pieces? Do they have troops with 2 attacks basic, AND a bolter. Do they have army wide (almost) Leadership 9? Do they have infantry better than most peoples elites choices, AS TROOPS!? And, coolest of all, do they have the versatility that is the army list of Chaos?
Yes, you could say Nids are the most variable army, i would say it was Chaos. Want to play an army that rushes up and tears your opponents into little pieces? I think Khorne is the god for you, your basic infantry can have 4 attacks each on the charge, or Berzerkers who have a fearsome WS and Strength of 5 on the charge ;?.
Want to sit back and shoot people into oblivion? Then Tzeentch is your man. Psychic powers in abundance, basic infantry with a 4+ invulnerable save, and, best of all, AP3 Bolters!!!!!
If you're a more defensive player, look to the Lord of Plagues, Nurgle. His marines can quite happily take the shooting of a whole Guard Infantry Platoon, then proceed to walk up and start breaking faces. You got charged? Oh, as Nurgle you dont care, they get no charge bonuses against them. Charged by a tusked carnifex? I dont care, no +2 attacks for you
If you are a bit more versatile than this, look at the Followers of the Dark Prince, Slaanesh. They have the option of being as shooty as buggery (15 shots and a blast weapon from 6 men, for less than 200 points) or, if they choose, combat monsters, hitting the enemy with an AP3 flamer before charging them with Initiative 5 troops!
Or, if you want, you can play without a god at all. You can take basic marines (theyre better than normal space marines by the way ) with, as mentioned above, a Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades, a Bolt Pistol and a Combat Weapon for the points it costs Marine Players to take a basic guy with a bolter!
In addition to this, we have some of the cooler units in this game. Sorcerers capable of blowing up a pair of tanks in one turn? Check. A unit which can fire 3 Lascannons at a tank one turn, then turn round and fire 3 Plasma Cannons at a clumped up marine unit the next, and has a name which makes them sound like pimped up terminators (Obliterators)? Check. Gigantic Monstrous CrabSpiders, Armed as heavily as a Leman Russ or a Battlewagon, but capable of ripping down a Land Raider in combat? Check.
However, the best, and most versatile thing about Chaos, is you can take ANY of these, you dont have to specialise. You want it in your army? You take it! See, some armies have to take certain things, like Tyranids NEED synapse creatures to keep them going, or Tau NEED to take a Battlesuit Commander and a unit of Fire Warriors. Chaos takes its cake, beats the opponent to the ground with it, THEN eats it.
Death To The Corpse God!
Edit: We are also the kings of Rapid Firefights. Try and beat a Chaos Army at one, you will lose
Well as Archy said, and pointed out very well, chaos are an extremely versatile, all-round, we can do pretty much anything army. And so are nids to that point.
But lets look for a moment at the core of the imperium's fighting force; the imperial guardsmen. When you first pick up a guard codex, and look through the rules, from a starters point of view the guardsmen seems pitiful, pathetic almost compared to some of the uber fighting machines of the 41st millenium. Just look at the guardsmens stat line and you almost laugh, as almost all infantry models in a guard army follow these basic measly stats. The guardsmen is outdone in almost all ways by all the other races. whether they be better at fighting, shooting or just being sneaky beggars, the guardsmen almost always comes out last. and its not just that fact, i mean yes they are better than grots, but grots dont form the mainstay of the orc army [generally], however your pitifull excuse of a soldier is. And this might just be what puts you off of guard.
However dont just put the book down, look whats that next to the stat line??... only 6pts a model, thats 60pts for a squad of ten, yes they are only armed with lasguns and have a 5+ save. yet this is almost a 3rd of the price of 10 marines! now do the maths and work out how many guardsmen you could have in a 1000pts/2000pts or in an uber apocalypse game. And as the numbers add up what you realise is that it doesnt matter if the guardsmens statline is poor, because guard almost always come in numbers, and when your opponent mocks your guardsmens "flashlights" you have to tell him to watch out for the other 190 behind the cover.
Generally with guard you tend to go for things that will overwhelm the enemy, and always make them take as many saves as possible.
but now you may just be thinking, hrrmmm i dont want an army of 200 guardsmen!! well fear not as the guard codex can be turned into one of the most versatile army building books. you can add tanks in there, specialist combat troops, snipers, elite units, heavy/special weapon squads. and when you buy your troops you dont but a squad, no you pay for a whole platoon! which can be from 25 to 55 guardsmen.
as you can see you can mix and match your army, play around with it, try new things. then ontop of all this versatility the codex then gives you doctrines, options to fully customise and create your own regiment, with 28 options to make it how you want, whther off the top of your head or from previously written fluff, the decision is yours to make.
Or perhaps you like the sound of tanks, but realise you can only have 3 as heavy support and 3 more for fast attack and transport for your troops [which i suppose is actually quite a lot of tanks, but not for a guard player], well as Lord Solar Macharius once said "Those I cannot crush with words I will crush with the Tanks of the Imperial Guard!" and you can do just that by fielding an entire army of tanks, yes just tanks!!, all at your command.
However your mind might start to ponder on what guard have to offer in terms of combat... hrrmmm well yes they do have ogryns, big meaty mutants than will rip an emperor champions head off... but really thats bout it apart from rough riders [which are a rare sight] and command squads [which i will come to]. however as well as your standard infantryman you can have conscripts in your army. basically new recruits, whose stat line is even worse than a guardsmen, well whats the point you might ask. well the point is that 10 men only costs 40 points and you can pay for a squad of 50 for only 200 pts! now throw them in a unit of khorne bezerkers and see how annoyed your enemy gets when they are held there for 4-5 turns in locked combat, which the conscripts can actually win... sometimes. or up your chances and make the ld 10 re-rollable and all with 3 attacks on the charge, and then see whos always laughing you or the ever thwarted khorne.
and as for HQ, the imperialguard codex offers you one of the most diverse HQ choices in the entire game system. for 1 HQ choice you can have your general and his personell bodyguard all kitted out, as well as fire-support squads, anti-tank squads, mortar squads, special weapon squads, sentinals and a mixture of these all for only 1 HQ choice. and then you can add advisors to your squads making them fearless, almost or better in combat or throw some psychic powers in each squad, and its all up to what you prefer.
and it is all of the above that make guardsmen such a good army all round. They are fantastic for beginners as there are so many options to choose from, but nothing complicated just what you want. and the battleforce is a very good starting point, with 20 guardsmen, a leman russ battle tank and heavy weapon sqaud its a bargain. and a brilliant way to start off, then buy a couple more infanrty boxes and you can have a 1000pts list already. and if your worried about buying something and then not needing it in the future, worry not as there is always room for anything in a guard army, nothing is wasted, even if it isnt used in a couple of months, you will always find use for it.
and not only is it a good starters army, but as you gain experience and knowledge of the game system, guard can be used in some of the most cheeziest fashions, ive been playing guard for 9 years now, and they are the perfect noob/vet/anyone army there is.
and believe me, 300 conscripts can do more than most would believe!
FOR THE EMPEROR
Notice Stirling seems to deviate towards infantry. He plays his "1st Cadian Meatshields". An all infantry guard army, usually with 300 models or so
As another word for Chaos, in the more material world, some armies (Eldar especially) have a lot of expensive units to buy (£36 for 10 Howling Banshees). With Chaos, if you wanted, you could convert almost anything from two simple box sets. The Chaos Space Marines box set and the Possessed box set. From this you can easily convert Chosen, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Fabius Bile Mutants, Possessed, Normal Marines, Havocs, Noise Marines (thats a hard one though) and THousand Sons (also a hard one). Oh, and of course Sorcerers and Lords can be converted from them too. All of mine are
You could probably get a good Chaos Army running for under £100. Compared to say, Eldar, Nids or Imperial Guard thats not bad