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I've already picked out my HS, and since I went heavy ont he Infantry I took stuff I thought would work well I'll show a brief list here so you guys can gimme the 4-1-1 about what you think...point limit for the grand tourney is 1850
Close Combat Weapon
Reasons: Psychic hood ALWAYS pays off it's points agasint Chaos sorcerors and especially Eldar, occasionally good agaisnt otehr SM playuers or if I have to play Daemonhunters. Iron Halo make sup for the lost wound instead of taking a force commander most the time. 2 CC weapons for an extra attack, the Jump pack and Teleport homer are to drop my Termies whena nd where I want them exactly.
Close Combat Weapon
Cheaper thant he Librarian, and the Jump pack Homer combo works out well..plus they can join a squad for extra assaultiness if needed.
5 Man Termie Assault Squad
3 Lightning Claw Termies
1 Thunder Hammer Termie
Reasons: I dont wnat to take laot of termies incase I figth 'Stealers,Orks,Khorne, Biel Tan with lots of Banshees, Theya re too expensive to gamble with like that.
I tookt he three Lightning claws for Infantry culling, and the Thunder hammer for the Shields 4+ save and STR 8 hit for stuff like Daemon Princes and Wraithlords I need to fight.
4 Full 10 Man Tac Squads W/
A heavy bolter per Squad
1 5 Man Tac Squad mounted ina Razorback w/
Twin Linked Lascannons
1 7 Man Scout team W/
6 Sniper Rifles
1 Heavy bolter
I like my SM's shooty, and the 5 Heavy bolters spread out through my troops choices will lay down arespectable amount of firepower agasint any army,a nd even Marines,CSM, and Necrons gotta fail a save sometime. That on top of the 40 Bolters shoudl do very well in the Firepower category. The Lascannons squad is just to give me a mobile firebase that was cheaper than a heavy support for Tank hunting,s o I don't have to use a full HS slot's worth of shots ona tank. The Scouts get that free 6 Inch move to post up ina VERY annoying area and their Sniper Rifles will almost ALWAYS Hit, even more than the Bolters...and can wound tough models ALOT easier,(Wraithlords, Daemon Princes,Avatar, C'tan)
It hink My Troops are spread out quite nicely.
2 Predator Annihilators w/
2 Spons Lascannon's each
1 5 man Devestator Squad w/
4 Missile Launchers
REASONS: Lascannosn are good for any army, but they have trouble being worht their points against orcs/guard/nids sometimes...but they were Cheaper than Dev Squads so I took the tanks. The Missile Launcher Dev squad is simply Essential, either to blow holes in 'Nids,Orcs,Guard or to krak open some power armor there is no better 'take on all comers choice'
Strengths: VERY shooty, lots of heavy hard hitting firepower, with a respectable amount od anti Infantry capability. Good Assault capabilites withthe Terminators and HQ's. Lots of models for a 1850 Point game.
Weakness's: NOT very good in assault at all EXCEPT for the Termies and HQ's making for a remarkable 7 models. Not Very mobile, once I settle in I need to stay put, this could hurt me in different objectives Khorne could really eat me up. Expensive, 2 wound HQs.
I am considering getting rid of an HQ to free up some points, as well as removing one of the regular 10 man Tac squads and replacing it with an assault squad, stripped of their jump packs. I dont want to get close, I just want to figth back if they get TOO close. The free'd up points can either be sunk into a Tac squad with less than ten Models or another couple Termies, or perhaps a Devestator squad instead of the 2nd Tank, or a Razorback for the Missile Dev Squad. I am not a fan of Marine Fast attack otehr than Landspeeder/attack bike squads..and I've not seent hem do well enought o warrant the points for a Grand tournament where I don''t know who I'll be facing. I'm trying to create a 'Take on all comers list", that leans towards being better at taking otu the 3+ armor save armies(SM,CSM,Necrons,Biel Tan,DH,SO, as they are the most common armies too fight against.
With my above army list I can:
Cull Terminators and Power armor by the Dozens.
Gun down weaker saves like Nids,orc,guards.
Take out high toughness models safely.
Pop Armor pretty effectivly.
Heavy Bolter mow the Tau, and puch Battlesuits out of the sky.
Establish MAD killing fields and firing lanes
What I cannot do is:
Fight my way out of a dry paper bag.
Move around quickly if I need to
Respond to rapidly moving stuff all that well
Afford to lose much of my Heavy weapons.
So...gimme advice,a s I do not wanna lose...I woudl appreciate scroes from you guys on a 1-10 Scale int he following three categories
1: Army Selection
2: Tactical Fairness (Cheese)
3: Overall potential
These tiop two are scored a tthe tounrey, thank you in advance for whatever results I get.
I will of course make changes if they seem like sound ideas...gracias.
Semper Fidelus Imperitoris
looks like a good list...
one thing though:
always by a bolt pistol for your HQ. dont buy another CCW for your HQ, cause its a waste of points, but a bolt pistol since it gives you +1 attacks and a pistol...
Yes, but I'm never going to be shooting with my HQ's, and I've modeled some VERY coollooking guys with two CC weapons since What-you-see-is-what-you-get
im ranking in the same order you did(army selection, fairness, overall potential)
i think if you fight any khorny armys, or blood angels, or another really assaulty army (i mean true assualt, not just like a shoot then assualt) your in hell. You dont have enough ap3 or lower weapons to take down a rush. Andonce in combat your in a hwole lot of trouble. Another problem is the lack of long range firepower (48 inches) . Sure you have heavy bolters, but those are only 36 inches, and you only have 2 or 3 48 inch weapons. That is a problem if against shooty armies, like gaurd or tau. Hope you fight da orks, or tyranids, or maybe eldar, cuase then you got an almost sure victory, considering how many ap 4-5 weapons you get.
Back from a long adventure.
Actually, I have
8 Lascannon's at 48 Inch Range
As well as
4 Missile Launhcers ar 48 Inch range, gives me twelve 48 Inch Weapons
Now, a question, shouold I get rid of a tac squad or some other squad and see what I can get as gfar as longer range weapons.
I Figure betweent he 5 Heavy Bolters thats some 3+ Saves gotta be failed
and then the 4 Missile's are AP 3
and 8 Lascannons are also AP 2
I need some info as to how I can keept ot he general trheme of my army, and points cost but have osme assaultiness.
Should I get rid of a tac squad and put in a 10 Man Assault Squad stripped of their Jump packs so they cost the same?
1: Army Selection
2: Tactical Fairness (Cheese)
3: Overall potential
As far as I am concerned, there isn't really "cheesiness" b/c it's all balanced...but that's my opinion...
1: 8 - SM seem common, but vanilla chapters are always cool IMO, even if you can't play with your own "house rules" or "Codex" for your SM, you at least were creative enough to come up with one rather than just play one pre-made.
2: 10 - No cheese involved, so a 10 (again no such thing as cheese, just strategies)
3: 7 - (Screwed when it comes to an assault)
Again, like you've said, you're hurting when it comes to an assault. But, since you are a Space Marine, you have an overall good statline and decent chance of surviving plus the morale etc.
Like someone else stated, unless you face something like say, Tyranids or Khorne, then you should be ok. I play Tyranids, and even though I'm not all too experienced, I can tell you what I'd try and do.
Let's see 1850 points...hm
I'd try and force a flank with a lot of Monstrous Creatures and a one or two broods of CC gaunts. The rest would drive straight for the center using avaiable cover. The flank I'd go for is whichever was more heavy weapon ideal, so as to try and knock them out of the fight. 40 bolters = a lot of dense firepower, but then any "swarm" army like the Nids will have plenty of figures too...
I'd also try and use infilitrators (genestealers) and the Lictors to try and get into CC to tie up your squads. Probably not the lictor's so much as they would probably die pretty quickly...but you see what I'm saying.
The only thing I could see going wrong for you is if you go up against another shooty army, or a CC army. If either one of them is using one of those as their main strategy, it will come down to who moves first. The shooty army will get to get into position most likely, or wait for you to move, then use their heavy weapons on you. The CC army will invariably just rush their first turn, but will also have a chance to get into those covered positions.
Hope some of my rambling advice helped .
Best of luck!
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*kicks to army lists*
Ze titles yez...
When in doubt,
Smite.<SilverMane> I would trust BID with my life
<SilverMane> HEIL BID!
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But what of the midgets!?
=]Front in favour of Moderation of the Harshest kind.[=
bin the librarian completely & the termies
keep the chaplin but add a plasma pistol, & give him term honours
remove the heavy bloters from the squads cause when you do want to move theyre wasted,
id go for a dread with hvy plasma instead of termies for your E choice,
add assault marines vet sgt plasma pist with the 2 plasma pist upgrade for the squad with the chaplin this gives you 4 st7 ap2 shots per turn this gives you a decent troop killing ability & decent anti armour too not to mention a good CC unit
WARMASTER of the SCHOLA PROGENIUM Alnwick Chapter (soon to be the world)
Your scout squad is illegal.
The sergenat has to have a bolt pistol and CCW he CAN'T have squad upgrades.
Your list is very very slow, much like my own. However I counter that with assault marines. You on the other hand have only 2 things that are still effective if they move. You librarian and your chappy. If the razor back moves you can't fire the lasccanon making it almost useless.
What if you play a sabatoge mission, rescue or a take and hold? You have nothing that moves fast to take an objective and you have nothing to move in fast if somthing attacks you. Thats were assault marines come in. There perfect in that they move fast and they react fast. Unlike a razorback or a rhino mounted squad.
You need some kind of fast unit to carry out objectives.
Anything can burn if you try hard enough.