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Causatum · June 16th, 2004, 08:56

Well, since the first time i grabbed that daemonhunter codex back in october, my list has changed more than 15 times easily throughout the months. So to add some spice to it, i went for some allies. And i picked...YOU GUESSED IT! Witch Hunters.

Right when I got off work from food lion i went directly to my neighborhood GW and bought the WH codex. Tons of goodies in there. Now you may ask, why Witch Hunters or, how about the other imperium forces? My answer to you is simple. Witch Hunters are just playing tubular...dude! The basic sister for 1 point more is a heck of a lot more efficient than a IST to say the least. Infact, the only real use i have for my IST is to fill in a troop slot, and for the targeter to help me out with guessing the range for friendly units close to it when determining shooting at enemy targets. So..without further ado, here is my 2K Daemonhunters list with Witch Hunter allies.

HQ-
(x1) Grand Master
Nemesis Force Weapon
Psycannon
Icon Of The Just

(x3) Grey Knight Terminators
Nemesis Force Weapon
Storm Bolter

(x1) Grey Knight Terminator
Nemesis Force Weapon
Incinerator

Total - [399]
HQ CHOICE - [399]

TROOPS-
1st: Grey Knights

(x1) Justicar
Nemesis Force Weapon
Storm Bolter
Melta bomb

(x7) Grey Knights
Nemesis Force Weapon
Storm Bolter

(x2) Grey Knights
Psycannon

Total - [330]

2nd: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers

(x1) Inquisitorial Stormtrooper Veteran
Hellgun
Targeter
Frag Grenades
Teleport Homer
Power Weapon
Meltabombs

(x4) Inquisitorial Stormtrooper
Hellgun
Targeter
Frag Grenades

(x2) Inquisitorial Storm trooper
Meltagun
Targeter
Frag Grenades

(x1) Rhino
Storm Bolter
Extra Armour
Smoke Launchers

Total - [188]

3rd: Battle Sisters Squad

(x1) Veteran Superior
Bolt Pistol
CCW

(x7) Battle Sister
Boltgun

(x2) Battle Sister
Meltagun

(x1) Rhino
Storm Bolter
Extra Armour
Smoke Launcher

Total - [202]

4th: Battle Sisters Squad

(x1) Veteran Superior
Bolt Pistol
CCW

(x7) Battle Sister
Boltgun

(x2) Battle Sister
Meltagun

Total - [144]
TROOP CHOICE - [864]

FAST ATTACK-
1st: Grey Knights

(x1) Justicar
Nemesis Force Weapon
Storm Bolter
Meltabomb

(x7) Grey Knights
Nemesis Force Weapon
Storm Bolter

(x2) Grey Knights
Incinerator

Total - [300]

2nd: Grey Knights

(x1) Justicar
Nemesis Force Weapon
Storm Bolter
Melta bomb

(x7) Grey Knights
Nemesis Force Weapon
Storm Bolter

(x2) Grey Knights
Incinerator

Total - [300]
FAST ATTACK CHOICE - [600]

HEAVY SUPPORT-
1st: Grey Knights Dreadnought

(x1) Grey Knights Dreadnought
Twin-Linked Lascannon
Missle Launcher
Extra Armour
Smoke Launcher

Total - [148]
HEAVY SUPPORT CHOICE - [148]

So thats 2011. A little over, but ill take out a sister if you really want me to

. Anyways, as you can see, the difference between this list and my other list is that i will have a lot more models at the start of battle. Since two GK squads and my HQ squad is Deep Striking, i want to have at least a firm foundation on the board while it's waiting for them to arrive. Thanks to those cheap sisters, a 3+ armour save and some numbers will help me out.

At the beginning of the game, i will have my IST squad, two sister squad (one in rhino), one GK squad, and a Dreadnought deployed. My tactic while waiting for my deep striking GK to arrive is to have all my units advance, both rhinos full 12 inches if permitting, while the walking sister squad screens the GKs. It might seem farfetch to you that it should be the other way around due to "the shrouding" rule for GKs, but at 25 points a pop, i want to make sure they get up there alive. My dreadnought will position itself to be hull-down if permitting and fire solely at vehicles.

Im not really worried about tanks now. Land Raiders, Land Raider Crusaders, and monoliths are the only thing that would pose a threat to me. Other tanks i can easily avoid or hit side/rear armour with NFW, meltabombs or meltagun. Since i have never seen an army deploy more than 5 tanks, (cept armoured company), i really dont have a problem with them anymore.

The only infantry squad that i made solely to fit the purpose for anti tank is my IST squad. 7 is a weird number for a squad, but i want to make sure that i dont lose too much if it does blow up. Strictly anti tank but the veteran will have a power weapon and teleport homer just incase me and the enemy gets too close.

GKs will form the backbone of my army, having 30 will be a good size. The only thing i am hesitating on is the Grand Master and retinue squad. For a battle at 2000, it seems to me that a GM and 4 termies is over kill; not to mention a big chunk of my points. Please help me with it if you think it is not suitable. Another thing i need help on is anti tank issues. I actually think i have a good amount this time with the meltas and the NFW, but please pitch in if its not enough.

Other than that...theres not much left to describe. That's pretty much it. Thank you for your help. Good night everyone.

mike62 · June 23rd, 2004, 19:53

Quote:

Infact, the only real use i have for my IST is to fill in a troop slot, and for the targeter to help me out with guessing the range for friendly units close to it when determining shooting at enemy targets.

Remember that any time you use a targeter, you can't use guess weapons in the same turn. You have to use all your guess weapons *before* using any targeters, or you don't get to use them at all.

Ah, I just realized that you likely didn't mean "guess weapons" when talking about nearby friendly units. Just regular ole' units. Never mind then!

mEGALOMANIAC · June 23rd, 2004, 21:26

HQ:
Very good, this is almost the same HQ unit I use (no psycannon, and one of the 4 GKT has a hammer). I can't think of any changed that would help you out here.

Troops:
Wow, nice numbers here!
1-Gk squad: I might drop one psycannon if you need the points elsewhere, but not essential.
2-IST squad: Between this and the 1st SoB unit, you've got some good mobile tank hunting. I'd suggest dropping the Vet's meltabombs (& maybe powerweapon), and giving him a combi-melta - you want to avoid CC with a unit like this!
3-SoB in rhino: Like I said above, these girls give you a nice anti-armor kick. I'm not familiar with SoB - can you give other weapons to the Sis Superior? if so, I'd suggest something like the IST Vet: Combi-melta, maybe power weapon. If you need to get either this unit or the IST's into combat, choose this one for the armor saves.
4-SoB on foot: Meltaguns for a footsloggers squad, not so good. Once again, I'm unsure of what they can have (all I know is melta and stormbolter), but in this situation, 2 stormbolters might be more useful as they have to advance on foot and probably won't be near a tank. Again, can the Sis Superior take any additional weapons? Pistol & CCW might not be useful for the same reason as the meltaguns.

Fast Attack:
I like the weight of this section. I feel that all GK armies need at least 2 full FA units.
-I'd drop one Incinerator from each squad. The SB/NFW will give you more attacks (and with the new rules, even MORE attacks) which you'll definitely need considering the new Fearless in CC rules.

Heavy:
I'd take Blessed on the Dread for the Aegis ability.

Suggestions:
EITHER: Swap the rhino from the IST's to the second SoB squad. Meltaguns + Power Armor is a good combination. Give the IST's plasma and let them slog it out (if you do this, give the IST Vet a combi-plasmagun and no power weapon instead).
OR: Give the IST Vet a Teleport Homer and power armor (to let him live longer), keep their rhino, and make them the doormat for the FAGK and HQ squads.

Looks good overall, nice numbers and rather quick moving.

(Random aside: if you edit your lists to be a bit more compact, it's easier to take in the army as a whole

)

Causatum · June 24th, 2004, 20:09

Quote:

2-IST squad: Between this and the 1st SoB unit, you've got some good mobile tank hunting. I'd suggest dropping the Vet's meltabombs (& maybe powerweapon), and giving him a combi-melta - you want to avoid CC with a unit like this!

In previous battles i've had, i found avoiding CC a hard thing to do. I would run my rhino 12 inches, pop out the meltas and shoot, but there would either always be a squad or two near the vehicle, or there would be survivors from the blown up/immobilized vehicle. But i dont know why i should take out the melta bombs? If its crucial for justicars to take them, then why should i put them on the Vet. Srg?

Quote:

3-SoB in rhino: Like I said above, these girls give you a nice anti-armor kick. I'm not familiar with SoB - can you give other weapons to the Sis Superior? if so, I'd suggest something like the IST Vet: Combi-melta, maybe power weapon. If you need to get either this unit or the IST's into combat, choose this one for the armor saves.

Yeah, Vet. Sup. are just like Vet. Srg. so i can give them anything in the wargear thingy.

Quote:

4-SoB on foot: Meltaguns for a footsloggers squad, not so good. Once again, I'm unsure of what they can have (all I know is melta and stormbolter), but in this situation, 2 stormbolters might be more useful as they have to advance on foot and probably won't be near a tank. Again, can the Sis Superior take any additional weapons? Pistol & CCW might not be useful for the same reason as the meltaguns.

Regular sisters can upgrade to flamer, melta, and stormbolter. There is also an option for heavy flamer but i dont think anyone would use that. I actually was considering adding a Seraphim squad for hit & run purposes with meltabombs so that is why i added the Vet. Sup. for the total of 3 faith points. But if i end up not taking seraphims, then ill just take out the necessary Vet. Sup. to save points because faith points are very usefull for my situation of tank hunting.

I actually thought keeping IST in the rhino and one squad of sisters on foot would be better for the situation of anti tank. Since IST has a save of 4+, running them on foot would be too risky for me as if i used sisters, i would have a healthy 3+ save.

Quote:

-I'd drop one Incinerator from each squad. The SB/NFW will give you more attacks (and with the new rules, even MORE attacks) which you'll definitely need considering the new Fearless in CC rules.

Hmm, im unfamiliar to the new rules. Haha i went to gamesday where they had a preview of the upcoming new rulebook but i was way too busy battling to check it out. If you know the URL to a site that contains some of the new rules, could you please link it to me?

Quote:

I'd take Blessed on the Dread for the Aegis ability.

A lot of people seem to take this upgrade for their dreadnought, although i dont know why. Also, would the LD of the dreadnought be 10 if it had blessed?

Quote:

(Random aside: if you edit your lists to be a bit more compact, it's easier to take in the army as a whole )

Ill look into that.

Thanks.

mEGALOMANIAC · June 24th, 2004, 21:08

Not saying you NEED to drop the IST's meltabombs. I tend to use my IST's as fodder more than anything else, so I try not to load up on extras. So when I give them 2 meltaguns, that's all they get for tank hunting gear. Deepstriking Justicars will get near vehicles rear armor. IST's on foot don't (that's how I use them, but if you're going to put IST and SoB in rhinos, instead of just the two SoB units, then yes, give them meltabombs).

I'd say give the Vet Sup some good wargear, then. A combi-melta is my favorite in a tank hunting squad.

You're right about SoB surviving longer out of the rhino than ISTs would. But *in* the rhino, they'd survive even longer (and survive the rhino getting popped too!). Plus, since they're in power armor, you can shoot out the rhino with your meltaguns and not count as open-topped. And like you said, IST's popping a tank tend to get into CC - SoB'd do better in CC in that situation.

A preview of the new rules is posted for free on the GW site. It's 3 or 4 pages, and just gives bits and pieces of the new rules. The new assault rules concerning GK are:
-Can't assault after shooting Rapid Fire weapons - this helps them, with the storm bolters.
-ALL models within 2" get ALL attacks, so you'd get a lot more S6 attacks with more standard GK.
-Fearless units that lose combat take wounds equal to the amount they lost combat by. They didn't specify if we can take armor saves on those wounds though.
So you'll want to get as many attacks in as possible, to prevent losing a round of CC!

As for the Dread, Blessed gives them the Aegis ability (which I love), and a couple of bonuses against Chaos vehicles (which I don't ever deal with). If you're fighting a lot of Chaos or psyker-heavy armies, I'd say it's essential. GK Dread with shrouding & Aegis is harder to hit than a regular dread. Combined with extra armor and smoke (in case of a bad firing position), these guys are a LOT harder to kill than regular Dreads. And yes, in the FAQ, GW stated that GK Dread's Ld is 10 for Blessed purposes.

Causatum · June 24th, 2004, 22:12

Quote:

I'd say it's essential. GK Dread with shrouding & Aegis is harder to hit than a regular dread.

I dunno if it has been updated in Q & A, but i dont think grey knight dreadnoughts benefit from any of the special rules on pg. 8 of the Daemonhunters codex. They arent considered "Grey Knights" under Grey Knight Terminology on pg. 20. Maybe im missing something?

June 23rd, 2004, 21:26	#3 (permalink)
mEGALOMANIAC Son of LO Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cranston, RI Age: 24 Posts: 3,534 Rep Power: 74	HQ: Very good, this is almost the same HQ unit I use (no psycannon, and one of the 4 GKT has a hammer). I can't think of any changed that would help you out here. Troops: Wow, nice numbers here! 1-Gk squad: I might drop one psycannon if you need the points elsewhere, but not essential. 2-IST squad: Between this and the 1st SoB unit, you've got some good mobile tank hunting. I'd suggest dropping the Vet's meltabombs (& maybe powerweapon), and giving him a combi-melta - you want to avoid CC with a unit like this! 3-SoB in rhino: Like I said above, these girls give you a nice anti-armor kick. I'm not familiar with SoB - can you give other weapons to the Sis Superior? if so, I'd suggest something like the IST Vet: Combi-melta, maybe power weapon. If you need to get either this unit or the IST's into combat, choose this one for the armor saves. 4-SoB on foot: Meltaguns for a footsloggers squad, not so good. Once again, I'm unsure of what they can have (all I know is melta and stormbolter), but in this situation, 2 stormbolters might be more useful as they have to advance on foot and probably won't be near a tank. Again, can the Sis Superior take any additional weapons? Pistol & CCW might not be useful for the same reason as the meltaguns. Fast Attack: I like the weight of this section. I feel that all GK armies need at least 2 full FA units. -I'd drop one Incinerator from each squad. The SB/NFW will give you more attacks (and with the new rules, even MORE attacks) which you'll definitely need considering the new Fearless in CC rules. Heavy: I'd take Blessed on the Dread for the Aegis ability. Suggestions: EITHER: Swap the rhino from the IST's to the second SoB squad. Meltaguns + Power Armor is a good combination. Give the IST's plasma and let them slog it out (if you do this, give the IST Vet a combi-plasmagun and no power weapon instead). OR: Give the IST Vet a Teleport Homer and power armor (to let him live longer), keep their rhino, and make them the doormat for the FAGK and HQ squads. Looks good overall, nice numbers and rather quick moving. (Random aside: if you edit your lists to be a bit more compact, it's easier to take in the army as a whole ) __________________ How To Use Allies: A summary of all possible combinations of IG, SM, DH, or WH armies!

June 24th, 2004, 21:08	#5 (permalink)
mEGALOMANIAC Son of LO Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cranston, RI Age: 24 Posts: 3,534 Rep Power: 74	Not saying you NEED to drop the IST's meltabombs. I tend to use my IST's as fodder more than anything else, so I try not to load up on extras. So when I give them 2 meltaguns, that's all they get for tank hunting gear. Deepstriking Justicars will get near vehicles rear armor. IST's on foot don't (that's how I use them, but if you're going to put IST and SoB in rhinos, instead of just the two SoB units, then yes, give them meltabombs). I'd say give the Vet Sup some good wargear, then. A combi-melta is my favorite in a tank hunting squad. You're right about SoB surviving longer out of the rhino than ISTs would. But in the rhino, they'd survive even longer (and survive the rhino getting popped too!). Plus, since they're in power armor, you can shoot out the rhino with your meltaguns and not count as open-topped. And like you said, IST's popping a tank tend to get into CC - SoB'd do better in CC in that situation. A preview of the new rules is posted for free on the GW site. It's 3 or 4 pages, and just gives bits and pieces of the new rules. The new assault rules concerning GK are: -Can't assault after shooting Rapid Fire weapons - this helps them, with the storm bolters. -ALL models within 2" get ALL attacks, so you'd get a lot more S6 attacks with more standard GK. -Fearless units that lose combat take wounds equal to the amount they lost combat by. They didn't specify if we can take armor saves on those wounds though. So you'll want to get as many attacks in as possible, to prevent losing a round of CC! As for the Dread, Blessed gives them the Aegis ability (which I love), and a couple of bonuses against Chaos vehicles (which I don't ever deal with). If you're fighting a lot of Chaos or psyker-heavy armies, I'd say it's essential. GK Dread with shrouding & Aegis is harder to hit than a regular dread. Combined with extra armor and smoke (in case of a bad firing position), these guys are a LOT harder to kill than regular Dreads. And yes, in the FAQ, GW stated that GK Dread's Ld is 10 for Blessed purposes. __________________ How To Use Allies: A summary of all possible combinations of IG, SM, DH, or WH armies!

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June 16th, 2004, 08:56	#1 (permalink)
Causatum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 137 Rep Power: 64	Well, since the first time i grabbed that daemonhunter codex back in october, my list has changed more than 15 times easily throughout the months. So to add some spice to it, i went for some allies. And i picked...YOU GUESSED IT! Witch Hunters. Right when I got off work from food lion i went directly to my neighborhood GW and bought the WH codex. Tons of goodies in there. Now you may ask, why Witch Hunters or, how about the other imperium forces? My answer to you is simple. Witch Hunters are just playing tubular...dude! The basic sister for 1 point more is a heck of a lot more efficient than a IST to say the least. Infact, the only real use i have for my IST is to fill in a troop slot, and for the targeter to help me out with guessing the range for friendly units close to it when determining shooting at enemy targets. So..without further ado, here is my 2K Daemonhunters list with Witch Hunter allies. HQ- (x1) Grand Master Nemesis Force Weapon Psycannon Icon Of The Just (x3) Grey Knight Terminators Nemesis Force Weapon Storm Bolter (x1) Grey Knight Terminator Nemesis Force Weapon Incinerator Total - [399] HQ CHOICE - [399] TROOPS- 1st: Grey Knights (x1) Justicar Nemesis Force Weapon Storm Bolter Melta bomb (x7) Grey Knights Nemesis Force Weapon Storm Bolter (x2) Grey Knights Psycannon Total - [330] 2nd: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (x1) Inquisitorial Stormtrooper Veteran Hellgun Targeter Frag Grenades Teleport Homer Power Weapon Meltabombs (x4) Inquisitorial Stormtrooper Hellgun Targeter Frag Grenades (x2) Inquisitorial Storm trooper Meltagun Targeter Frag Grenades (x1) Rhino Storm Bolter Extra Armour Smoke Launchers Total - [188] 3rd: Battle Sisters Squad (x1) Veteran Superior Bolt Pistol CCW (x7) Battle Sister Boltgun (x2) Battle Sister Meltagun (x1) Rhino Storm Bolter Extra Armour Smoke Launcher Total - [202] 4th: Battle Sisters Squad (x1) Veteran Superior Bolt Pistol CCW (x7) Battle Sister Boltgun (x2) Battle Sister Meltagun Total - [144] TROOP CHOICE - [864] FAST ATTACK- 1st: Grey Knights (x1) Justicar Nemesis Force Weapon Storm Bolter Meltabomb (x7) Grey Knights Nemesis Force Weapon Storm Bolter (x2) Grey Knights Incinerator Total - [300] 2nd: Grey Knights (x1) Justicar Nemesis Force Weapon Storm Bolter Melta bomb (x7) Grey Knights Nemesis Force Weapon Storm Bolter (x2) Grey Knights Incinerator Total - [300] FAST ATTACK CHOICE - [600] HEAVY SUPPORT- 1st: Grey Knights Dreadnought (x1) Grey Knights Dreadnought Twin-Linked Lascannon Missle Launcher Extra Armour Smoke Launcher Total - [148] HEAVY SUPPORT CHOICE - [148] So thats 2011. A little over, but ill take out a sister if you really want me to . Anyways, as you can see, the difference between this list and my other list is that i will have a lot more models at the start of battle. Since two GK squads and my HQ squad is Deep Striking, i want to have at least a firm foundation on the board while it's waiting for them to arrive. Thanks to those cheap sisters, a 3+ armour save and some numbers will help me out. At the beginning of the game, i will have my IST squad, two sister squad (one in rhino), one GK squad, and a Dreadnought deployed. My tactic while waiting for my deep striking GK to arrive is to have all my units advance, both rhinos full 12 inches if permitting, while the walking sister squad screens the GKs. It might seem farfetch to you that it should be the other way around due to "the shrouding" rule for GKs, but at 25 points a pop, i want to make sure they get up there alive. My dreadnought will position itself to be hull-down if permitting and fire solely at vehicles. Im not really worried about tanks now. Land Raiders, Land Raider Crusaders, and monoliths are the only thing that would pose a threat to me. Other tanks i can easily avoid or hit side/rear armour with NFW, meltabombs or meltagun. Since i have never seen an army deploy more than 5 tanks, (cept armoured company), i really dont have a problem with them anymore. The only infantry squad that i made solely to fit the purpose for anti tank is my IST squad. 7 is a weird number for a squad, but i want to make sure that i dont lose too much if it does blow up. Strictly anti tank but the veteran will have a power weapon and teleport homer just incase me and the enemy gets too close. GKs will form the backbone of my army, having 30 will be a good size. The only thing i am hesitating on is the Grand Master and retinue squad. For a battle at 2000, it seems to me that a GM and 4 termies is over kill; not to mention a big chunk of my points. Please help me with it if you think it is not suitable. Another thing i need help on is anti tank issues. I actually think i have a good amount this time with the meltas and the NFW, but please pitch in if its not enough. Other than that...theres not much left to describe. That's pretty much it. Thank you for your help. Good night everyone.