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Ok I didn't see a sticky with any rule FAQ's and such so I will ask the question here. How does Feel No Pain work? Right now our local group is pretty much using it as the examples are shown in the description: unless its AP2 or lower or Power Weapons and such. So this Ork squad got the veteran ability in a campaign and has been shrugging off Flamers like they are nothing with FNP because the Flamers aren't AP 2/1 or Power weapons/Fists. Today some guy challenged that saying that because the Orks would be denied the Armor save they would not be allowed a FNP roll because the flamers would go through thier armor? So were we treating FNP wrong and the challenger was right or does it have to be a AP weapon (2/1) to bypass FNP?
It's exactly as the rules state. It's based on the stats of the weapon, not on the stats of who is being hit. So the guy challenging your interpretation is incorrect. So in your example the Orks are perfectly fine to take their FnP save as the flamer doesn't meet any of the conditions within the rules for preventing a FnP save.
Hopefully that's clear. I could be more detailed but i don't want to end up inadvertantly breaking board rules by posting copyrighted material/information. Regardless, you/your gaming club were right, he was wrong.
ehhh still not totally convinced reason being is the desription of FNP says "any other wound against which no armour save can ever be taken" so that could mean any attack that pierces the targets armor. I think the problem is this whole rule is being applied to a unit thats not normally given FNP and hence the confusion. If it was say for example Obliterators with a 2+ Armor save this wouldn't be a problem cuz that would take AP2/PW's to bypass the FNP rule, but with Orks thats a lot of weapons that bypass thier armor. confusin
Okay hopefully i'm not breaking any forum rules here but basically if you read over the description its "any other wound against which no armour save can EVER be taken". Seeing as the flamer is neither AP 1 nor AP2 and doesn't have any special rules preventing armour saves then it doesn't deny the feel no pain save unless other criteria for denying the FnP save is met, e.g. double toughness. If you look at the other examples provided of weapons that deny the FnP save they all always deny armour saves.
So with the flamer as armour saves can generally be taken against in, excepting in the case of lightly armoured troops, it doesn't *always* deny an armour save. Hence it doesn't classify as a weapon against which no armour save cannot ever be taken and hence unless you're using a T2 unit then you can still take your FnP save.
Anyway hopefully that a) clears it up, I know i'm right in this case but i'm trying to skirt around the forum rules regarding posting copyrighted information yet also provide evidence to justify my arguement, and b) doesn't break any forum rules If it does feel free to either message me and i'll change it or if you're a mod edit it/yell at me.
Edit: Also you should probably have posted this in the 40k Rules Help sub-subforum rather than 40k Armies, you'd probably get either a better worded response or at least more attention.
Last edited by Dreadrock; October 25th, 2008 at 14:36.
I agree with Deadrock.
Also in the Daemon Codex plaguebearers get FNP and they have no armour save at all. Plague zombies in the Typhus apocalypse formation also have no armour but do get FNP. (These are however toughness 2 so all sorts of weapons ignore FNP due to the instant kill part of the FNP rule.)
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
I have read multiple arguments on different boards about this, have also heard from people who called rules boys from GW and have also called them myself, and from rules boys, they state it exactly how your group has been playing and how Dreadlock stated it. The intention of the vague line stating stuff that doesn't allow saves is to cover weapons, mostly cc weapons, but some ranged in armies that ignore saves, but aren't classified as power weapons, or don't have an ap per se. It seems to be a cover line for GW in the rules so they don't have to list the 30+ potential fnp ignoring weapons. Furthermore, as far as fluff goes, the intention of fnp being ignored by high ap or power weapons is to imply that these weapons literally melt flesh in the case of plasma or melta, or completely dismember in the case of power weapons and the such in cc. An Ork with fnp could just shrug off a burn from a flamer, but not being chopped in half from a Dread power claw.
An example is breath of chaos in the daemon codex or wind or chaos in the CSM codex. It is template weapon that ignores cover and armour saves but doesn't have a strength or an AP value.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.