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Well I want to pose a generall question to ALL of the 40K players. First off, I posted this here because I wanted the opinions of not just the tyranid players.
Say you walk into a tournament(casual, not RTT or GT atmosphere) that is 1000 pts. The person running the tournament informs you that you will be facing off against a tyranid player in your first game. You meet the person and he seems like a decent dude and you begin to set up. After you are both done, you look across the table to see his whole army set up, and see a 189 pt winged hive tyrant with 2 sets of scything talons and warp Blast AND a 153 pt carnifex with venom cannon. The rest of his choices are filled out with 3-4 broods of gaunts(most being 11 pts a piece) and a squad of winged warriors.
Now, the question I pose to you is, would you consider this to be a little "much" for 1000 pts? Or would it depend on the army that you play. I am trying to acheive a balance. I started off my nids with just a carnifex in 1000 pts but would either get rocked by an army that could kill it in turn one or get ridiculed by a guy playing an army with no guns to take out even one carnifex.
Then, I adjusted the list to include the before mentioned tyrant and the fex. I would regularly go against the same opponents that still had no trouble killing both TMC's before they reached their lines and against the opponents that still could not deal with even one. There really was never any middle ground.
So I ask you, what are your general thoughts about this?
I "almost" flipped when I saw this topic (bein fed up with talks of cheese and beards). But this was about something else than thought which for the best for everyone.
When I hear cries of beard, cheese, something being unfair or a question "How the hell am I suppose to beat that" I smile, laugh or do some toher dismissive gesture.
Seriously...do not listen to cries of cheese when the subject is as vague as "how many TMC's can 'nids take?"
But back to the question at hand.
No I do not find that list cheesy. I'd play you.
If this turns into a discussion of cheese in general and is not centered on flinger's situation or examples like it then this gets locked faster than a SoB's thigh armor in a communal Imperial Guard camp!
Consider yourselves notified!
Your fluffraping hurts my eyes. - TehDarkPredator
That list is fine really, a cheese tyranid army is one that contains less models than a chaos space marine army of the same point cost.
Hive Tyrant and a Carnifex in 1000 point army? Sounds like a standard Tyranid army to me.
yea my rule of thumb is about 1 TMC for every 500 points. Also about 25 guants/stealers per 500 points. so by thinking i would take about 2 TMC's and 50 guants/stealers which is almost wat u have there. Its a PERFECT mix of big and small bugs.
<insert witty remark here>
IMO this list isnt cheesy at all, I too use the 1 TMC for 500 pts theory (except in games less than 1000) I have used a similar 1000 pt list except I used a walking tyrant with 2 guard, carnifex and gaunts against Tau opponent, no cries of cheese there.
<img src='http://muchos.co.uk/members/slicer/sig_slicer2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Right, I'm going to agree with what's been said. Not only does that list look fine--it looks fun to play against. As with most cases in which "cheese" is called, I'm guessing that the person across the table has difficulty creating a well-rounded army. The 153-point ven./scy./extended carnifex is probably the single most-common tyranid monster, and a winged close-combat tyrant is no rarity either. Anyone who goes to a tournament with no idea how he's going to take one down really has no business being there.
As an example of cheese being relative, I play a mixed Khorne/Tzeentch chaos army, and my brother plays necrons. For months, I couldn't lose, just because of my big, brutal daemon prince (whom I've realized since was a little overpowered for the games we were playing). It got to the point where playing just wasn't fun for either of us anymore, and it got back to me (through our other brother) that my brother thought the d.p. was cheesy. The thing is, aside from his lord with a warscythe, my brother had warriors, flayed ones, wraiths and scarabs--nothing whatsoever with decent armor penetration. The lord aside, only the wraiths could hit with strength above four, and their chances in close combat against a khornate daemon prince were slight. Then my brother got three destroyers and two heavy destroyers, and my daemon prince hasn't gotten his points value back since. Neither has my defiler, for that matter. In fact, since his destroyers can easily fly around my Thousand Sons and nothing else in my army has enough firepower to inflict significant losses on them regularly, his army is starting to look a bit cheesy. Until I get my obliterators.
That's not to say that I don't think anything is genuinely cheesy. If you were squeezing three eighty-point carnifices into a 300-point game, I might quirk a brow. I've got a couple of rules that I stick by so that I'm not tempted into stuff like that. With tyranids, I think one monster every 400 points is okay. A lot of people will say 500 points, but I think that a tyranid force-org. chart should be filling up at around 2000 points, and five monsters on a full chart sounds about right. With any army, I take the point limit of the game and divide it by ten. The number I get is the most I will spend on gear for any unit. Thus, in a 1000-point game, nothing would get more than 100 points over its un-upgraded cost. No hive tyrant over 190; no carnifex over 190; no chaos lord/daemon prince over 160 (preserving the 2:3 ratio for daemonic gifts, too). As you can see, it's not really incredibly limiting in a game of 1000 points or more, and it helps to keep things sporting in smaller games.
Wow, that's a pretty complicated answer to a simple question. Yup, I'm a certifiable babbler.
thank you and good night
See though, an army like your brothers necrons for example or my friends ork army just cant put out any AP 2 shots really and have no shot in cc against it(except NOBS with klaws).
looks like a decent list to me,
1 TMC for every 500pts is the way for balance and you did nicely with that list.