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  1. #1
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    GW lawyers at it again. No love for us fans

    Games Workshop forcing removal of fan created templates, rules, scenarios, etc.

    Glad I do remember when they cared about the game and us gamers more than the paycheck.
    I sincerly hope this is more the 'business' execs and NOT the old core creators.

    Games Workshop Goes After Its Biggest Fans With Takedown Order | Techdirt


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  3. #2
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    You're surprised? Games Workshop harasses Board Game Geek all the time. The time where Warhammer and Warhammer 40k had a fun and casual atmosphere are over. Now you get a legal team on your ass if you so much as cough.

    Eh, at least it keeps you from feeling bad when you buy everything second hand on ebay, or convert all your vehicles out of plasticard, spare parts, and cheap toys.

    It's like sneaking candy into a movietheater. They demand $4 for candy that normally costs $1, so they get nothing. ^_^
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  4. #3
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    no, not really surprised. I took 10 years off 40k and just got back in, and was astounded at the increase in cost and how much plastic figs are! ridiculous. It's just too bad. It seems they are just widening the door for another company to sweep in with an equally great looking line and good rules at a fraction of the cost (uhhh, war machine anyone?)
    -John

  5. #4
    LO Zealot Kelter Skelter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    It's like sneaking candy into a movietheater. They demand $4 for candy that normally costs $1, so they get nothing. ^_^
    That's a really great analogy.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Darthvegeta800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMichael View Post
    no, not really surprised. I took 10 years off 40k and just got back in, and was astounded at the increase in cost and how much plastic figs are! ridiculous. It's just too bad. It seems they are just widening the door for another company to sweep in with an equally great looking line and good rules at a fraction of the cost (uhhh, war machine anyone?)
    -John
    People claimed Warmachine would overtake them, for years. And I just don't see it happening. At least not them. They have locally some strong fanbases but they're not widespread enough and I doubt they'll be in the near future if ever.

  7. #6
    Member THELuc's Avatar
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    ebay solution

    i stopped buying directly from GW years ago exactly for the way they treat the community, since they were near bankrupt they got even worse instead of learning the lesson. like those codexes that they write, they dont listen to the fans and just do as they please.

    the ebay solution i think its the best, if we hurt them enough they gonna listen to us.

    a baneblade is a plastic tank sold for 100CAD and a other toy or scale model with same quality and size (Tamiya model kits) is 25 to 35CAD so no wonder players do templates. All those actions they do are hurting themselves and encourage the community of hurting them even more.

    i just hope one day the community will mobilise to make them listen to us but thats like a John Lennon dream, hardly players will follow one banner.

    ill just have to wait that GW will just kill itself.
    This is my Bolter. There is many like it but this one is mine. My bolter is my best hobby.....And i still hate dragons. Find out More at http://necrohammer-at-war.blogspot.com/

  8. #7
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    In case GW Big-Brother is watching...

    On one hand, I understand that they're trying to keep people from undermining their goods, but they can't legally do it. They run around and wave this flag that they're going to shut a company down and that they're going to take someone to court, and you know- at least here in the US- they can't do that.

    Here at LO they could legally tell use to change the logo because it was their trademarked material. They could also ask us to stop posting artwork that came from their sources because that's also trademarked material. However, they can't stop us from taking pictures of a model that we painted and using it's actual name. They don't own that, because we're correctly representing the figure in question. Releasing player-aids? As long as you retype the word content and avoid using trademarked images, you can do this legally.

    I want to see some tiny little community like LO raise the funds to actually fight these yahoos in court and win, and then show everyone else that they can do the same. GW would defecate masonry, if you catch my meaning, and probably ease up quite a bit.

    They have so many crooked business practices that are so terribly capitalistic that they actually demolish their revenue. About eight years ago they passed a rule that independent retailers had to purchase 2 of most items, and could no longer just order a single item. This caused 3 comic-stores in my area to drop the game entirely. They already weren't selling enough boxes to keep more than 1 in stock at any given time, and now they had to but them in pairs. GW shot itself in the foot- every comic store in my area used to display their models for free, pay them to stock the pieces and the books, and now they make no money whatsoever.

    Our local hobbystore shut down the local GW in our area. It was amazing. He offered what people wanted- friendly staff, more playing space, and he knew how to run a good business. People in the area stopped going to the 2-table demo-only GW store and started heading to the RT, and GW had to close the store. It was funny, the local shop's manager walked into the mall and offered to buy the space out from under them, just to show that he could. The little guy can win sometimes, and he loves GW. They should look at successful stores like this one and try to emulate it.

    Providing rules for free just nets people into the game. The trouble that GW is having is that they've upped the prices too high. They increased the pricing of Armybooks and play aids to the point that people have stopped purchasing them and started stealing them. Normally, offering free rules or turning a blind eye to piracy would actually HELP a game company. It stands to reason that you can't play the game without the pieces, and GW will make more money off the pieces anyway. However, they've priced the pieces so high, that they've opened a huge door for other companies to undercut them. The other companies can still make just as much profit, because there are people out there who would rather buy ugly models for 1$ each, than pay 5$ each for beautiful models. Not to mention all the people who have started to flock to ebay, Reaper, and shops like TheWarStore or BitzBarn.

    GW has gone into areas where RTs are thriving, and put up a shop with the intent to run the smaller store out of business and then take the established customer base. It's foolish- and it doesn't work. The local shops offer more space, and a totally different environment. They are successful because of that, not because people just want to buy models and rules. GWs run these little guys out- who sell GW models and pay GW to stock those models- and then leave people bitter, or confused as to where to go to get new models. It's not like GW advertises. Well, outside of their Sears-Catalogue of a "hobby magazine".

    People say that they suspect that the people incharge of GW right now have never played a game of warhammer in their life. I think it's quite the opposite. I think that the people in charge of GW right now have never run a business in their lives. They're making mistakes that even a college-freshman Business Major can tell you is suicide. The world around them is upping supplies, while the world demand is shrinking. This means that costs should be dropping DRASTICALLY. I don't care if they have to switch to a cheaper plastic, or drastically reduce the prices and switch to metal (plastic is a petroleum product, so in a way, prices are tied to gas costs) for all their models. Ever notice that Reaper can cast better models for cheaper costs out of metal?

    I sometimes wonder if the people at GW know that they're going under. I wonder if perhaps what they're doing is an attempt to grab as much as they can before the ship goes down. Inevitably (IMO), TTG will become a thing of the past. GW is already aware of that, and are releasing electronics like the movie and games to try to make a shift from a huge company that sells a dying product, to a small company that works in a mainstream enterprise. I think that GW knows that it's player base is shrinking, and that it can either stay open for another decade or two, or it can speed up the process and make some money along the way by jacking prices and removing games/models from production.

    This whole IP war is just ridiculous though. If it were up to me, I'd run GW entirely differntly. I'd make armylists available for cheap download, either as a pay-as-you-go or a cheap subscription. I'd allow outside advertisement into WhiteDwarf, to pay for better advertising outside the company (LO Banner Exchange). I would cut the costs of models and seek to standardize as many molds as I can so that there is less waste. I would place more focus on grassroots gaming and RTs and even from-home suppliers. I would close GW shops that are in competition with one another, or that are in competition with a successful RT. With increased advertising I'd get away from pricey realestate like malls and strip-malls and move into cheaper areas that offer more floorspace for comparable prices, to allow for more gaming. I'd worry about store quality as much as model quality, and I'd restructure the site to provide more customer input and interaction, and then take it into account when writing new editions of the rules and of the game.
    There are tons of ways to bring more money into the company that are easy, harmless, and that aren't being utilized at all. The first move would be to use those increased funds to drop the cost of models without dropping the quality. That would create a snowball effect of bringing in more money, with which you could diversify your product, and start rebuilding the company's image entirely.

    /end rant
    Pts Values for AoS here!

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  9. #8
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
    Here at LO they could legally tell use to change the logo because it was their trademarked material. They could also ask us to stop posting artwork that came from their sources because that's also trademarked material.
    What's especially absurd about this particular legal jab is that the double-headed eagle has been around for 1500+ years. The Holy Roman Empire used it, the Byzantine Empire used it. Heck, it's even found among the Vijayanagarans! While GW has *some* intellectual rights to their particular rendition of the eagle, if you tread back through history, we can actually find an archetypal pattern far more closely aligning LO's portrayal of the double-headed eagle with certain Anatolian icons. If anything, the descendants of Asia Minor have more reason to charge us with copyright infringement than GW :p. However, LO finances can't support the legal battle, so we just had to give up the double-headed eagle altogether.

    Here's something to chew on: About a year ago, we received a letter from GW, requesting that we remove some images from our site that violated copyright law. It was rather casual and, from the standpoint of the law, fairly amiable. In fact, it was so casual that its authenticity had to be confirmed. At any rate, we understood their concerns, and we responded obligingly. Now, if we take a look at the kinds of legal hate they're throwing around these days, it really does seem like GW has replaced a few old heads with new, more aggressive ones.
    Last edited by Rabbit; December 11th, 2009 at 18:08.
    Spambot kill tally. . .337

  10. #9
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    For the love of God, I wish they had to prove that the use of their material was costing them money in some way. I can see the point behind 'not posting too much information about the codex material', but how the hell does posting their artwork affect their bottom line? Do they really think people are buying the books solely for the artwork, and will print out the pictures instead of buying the books?

    Good point about the double headed eagle. That's been around for most of human history.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  11. #10
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    my avatar says it all...
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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