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  1. #1
    LO Zealot Rafici's Avatar
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    How would you beat this army

    Ok i play 1,500 point games with my friend and he can't beat my tau list.

    My list is:

    HQ Fireknife with 2 Fireknife body guard + 1 shield drone
    HQ Fireknife with 2 Fireknife body guard + 1 shield drone

    Elite: Fireknife with 2 Fireknife body guard + 1 shield drone

    Troops: large firewarrior squad
    Troops: Small firewarrior squad (usually in pathfinder DF)

    FA: Piranha (fusion blaster)
    FA: 5 pathfinders + DF

    HS: 2 Broadsides + 1 Shield drone
    HS: 1 Broadside + 1 Shield drone
    HS: 1 Broadside + 1 Shield drone

    -All veh have Disruption pods + Target arrays are taken if posible unless i need the slot for multi tracker as can't have HWMT.
    - I sometimes take a 3 man team of TL-Flamer + Missile pod in Elite with a lone battlesuit instead of the fireknife team.

    My friend fields Chaos deamons, IG, SM
    SM - no LR or Drop pods

    We tend to play on a table with 4is pieces of buildings- so gives good cover to Battlesuits, if not use devilfish for cover.

    OK please tell us what you would field to go against this.

    I'm sorry in advance if we say we are unable to do this due to not having the figures.

    Before someone says rhino rushing - nope it dont work - they all get destroyed first turn even with smoke popped.

    thank you for help

    Tau: 6K - W17-D3-L4, Orks: 4K - W9-D0-L2, SM: 7K - W7-D3-L4,CSM: 4K W5-D1-L1, Nids: 3.2K W3-D0-L2
    Apoc games (mixture of armies used): W5-D0-L1

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  3. #2
    Senior Member slobulous's Avatar
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    I'm afraid your friend is doomed to lose forever. That list is simply unbeatable.
    I WANNA GET STUCK IN WIT DA BOYZ

  4. #3
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    How do you win objective based games with only two troop choices? It's possible, sure, but hardly invincible. Also, you have a lot of easy kill points there, so annihilation games are probably going to be a hassle as well.

    I can see how mechanized armies would have trouble against your army, but the IG and SM can field a lot of units with a high rate of fire, like auto-cannons, snipers, and assault cannons, and shooting that can instant kill your suits, like missiles and lascannons. If he focuses on these elements, with heavy weapons teams, snipers, devastator squads and the like, I think he has a good chance of taking you out.

    Chaos Daemons are tricky, because everything he drops is going to be shot up. With Daemons, I suggest dropping all on one side, staying out of range/sight of half of your army. That should even up the odds.

    Finally, any large squads with a lot of wounds would give your army trouble, since you're obviously equipped to mainly deal with vehicles and elites.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  5. #4
    Senior Member matus's Avatar
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    Give me some slack here slobulous , it is hard to beat honest, I find it high rate of fire weapons like autocannon, heavy bolters etc are good if you can see your opponents, hard if they jump out, shoot and then jump behind a building and are totally obscured, mu two chimeras are dead before they make it across the board to close range and my leman russes, while effective t what they can see don't last forever against BS4, twin linked, strength 10, ap 1 weapons bolstered by marker lights.

    In my last game against this list I had:

    company command squad with astropath and officer of the fleet
    2 vet squads in chimeras, one with 2 heavy flamers and one with hb/ml
    A basilisk
    2 Sentinels with missile launchers
    3 russes, two exterminators and a punisher
    marbo (I had the points and was not sure what to spend them on)
    10 storm troopers

    (before you ask we knew it was going to be kill points before we started)

    the chimeras were both knocked out before they left my half, the punisher followed soon after, mainly to the 3 units of broadsides. The one round of shooting the punisher got off may have put out 35 shots, but when over half miss, a few didn't wound and the 3+ saves covered a lot more, I think it killed 1 crisis suit. The storm-troopers deep struck to try and shoot up a unit of 3 crisis suits with their ap3 weapons, managed to case one wound before the crisis turned their 3 twin linked flamers on them and reduced them to 1 man. The exterminator shot at the only unit they could see that was not totally obscured by buildings, mainly a couple of broadsides, but with shield drones and 2+ saves auto cannons are no guaranteed kill. The command squad did manage to catch up an kill the flamer crisis suits eventually, but didn't do much else. The sents took a shot at the pathfinder DF before being taken out by a missile pod.

    My main problem was by the start of each of my turns I could never see any of the crisis suits, they always shot and ducked back out of view, only the flamer ones who got close were killed. The broadsides were in the corner right by the table edge and most of my guns were out of rang for most of the game, and the 2+ save, t4 and shield drone kept them pretty safe. The only troops that could not stay well back or hide were the fire warriors and pathfinders, the pathfinders I shot up and made run, but fire warriors stayed out of view or in the devil fish.

    The game before had been similar, I had no marbo, normal squads not vets and some conscripts, the effect was much the same and they punisher was in fact and executor which proved to be very expensive with 2 sponson plasma cannons and managed to scatter and miss every singe shot before being broadsided.

    Game 3 I swapped to 3 tactical squads in rhinos with extra armor, 3 speeders, 10 assault marines, a command squad on bikes, captain on bike (feel no pain, woot!). I planned to get forward faster, deep strike the speeders and assault marines, turbo boost the bikes and move forward, smoke then move deploy and rapid fire the tacticals. one combat squad was left back to hold an objective. The rhinos all got hit in rafs first turn, despite the extra armor and smoke, the marker lights stripped one of its smoke cover, the other fell to weight of rail gun and missile pods. the marines bailed out and make a little line in the middle behind a couple of walls, the bikes got reduced to 3 men, but one was still the captain and the assault marines managed to drop at the back in range of the fire warriors (the few troops). the fire from the tactical bounced off the crisis armor (they had jumped out of rapid fire range and the heavy weapons had moved in an attempt to get cover, the assault marines managed to kill one and wound another with plasma pistols and bolt pistols but obviously could not assault yet. The bikes managed to charge a unit of 3 crisis suits, but with only a 50:50 change of wounding, and with only the captain with a power weapon they could only kill the shield drone, the crisis hit back, with S5 managed to do a couple of wounds, I lost the combat and promptly fled. In rafs turn he instant killed the captain with a rail gun, the assault marines were fired on by the fire warriors and fled, one tactical combat squad holding an objective got hit by a crisis unit and a broadside hit and fled. In my turn I had only about 12 tactical marines and one bike apothecary left. the speeders failed another reserve roll, nothing in range that was not hidden behind a building or a tank their guns could not hurt or that had rallied but could not do anything else. In rafs turn he mopped up more what was left and then hid again. We stopped then as I could not get back into range or more than one objective. The speeders would have automatically turned up next turn but would have been on their own against an army in which every gun could take them out.

    Lengthy sorry, but does anyone have any suggestions.

    My last option is daemons, but mine is a Khorne list with 3 flamers, 10 horrors, 2 heralds and a tzentch prince. the tzench bits do ok when they land as they can shoot, but all the devil fish and crisis suits move away from the bloodletters, crushers and hounds as fast as thy move towards them.

    I'm out of ideas. I know I'm not a good gamer but I've run out of ideas. (I do suspect we move a lot of LOS blocking scenery with doesn't help, but surely I should be able to win in any terrain situation.

  6. #5
    LO Zealot Rafici's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynameisgrax View Post
    How do you win objective based games with only two troop choices? It's possible, sure, but hardly invincible. Also, you have a lot of easy kill points there, so annihilation games are probably going to be a hassle as well.

    I can see how mechanized armies would have trouble against your army, but the IG and SM can field a lot of units with a high rate of fire, like auto-cannons, snipers, and assault cannons, and shooting that can instant kill your suits, like missiles and lascannons. If he focuses on these elements, with heavy weapons teams, snipers, devastator squads and the like, I think he has a good chance of taking you out.

    Chaos Daemons are tricky, because everything he drops is going to be shot up. With Daemons, I suggest dropping all on one side, staying out of range/sight of half of your army. That should even up the odds.

    Finally, any large squads with a lot of wounds would give your army trouble, since you're obviously equipped to mainly deal with vehicles and elites.
    Thanks - yes objective missions are tricky ( i tend to hold one squad in reserve and one in DF) in the game we played today - on his 4th turn he has a chance to kill my Firewarriors - but of the 2 things that would have done it - one didn't turn up (reserves) and the other failed their LD 10 moral test (he is quite unlucky)
    We have made the assumption that i can't win outright on objectives but i can easily draw and win on victory points.
    There are not many kill points there - only 11. thats no more than other armies - i took 3 Kill points of him in his first turn today by killing his rhinos.

    He played a fire line IG army and it was difficult to take it down but he didn't kill anything of mine by them, except when i ran a DF with FW forwards. His strengh there was the L russ which lasted 5 turns but funily died first turn next game.

    We're not saying that is unbeatable and it does have strong weaknesses, but with the 3 armies he playes we can't find a way to make it a close game or him win without rellying heavily on something that only has a small chance of happening.

    Finally with the instand kill - i agree that the dev squad is the best bet cos all units with only 1/2 las/Missile Launcher with say one wounding i can put that on the shield drone. ( tends to work long enough for what i need.

    thanks - a very helpful list. What you are saying was what i have been thinking.

    When i don't know what army im playing (i know its not hord tho) i would take the TL-flamer/MP battlesuits)
    And for a very unknown enemy i would also take out 1 braod for krrot + hounds (meat shield)
    Last edited by Rafici; April 15th, 2010 at 21:53.
    Tau: 6K - W17-D3-L4, Orks: 4K - W9-D0-L2, SM: 7K - W7-D3-L4,CSM: 4K W5-D1-L1, Nids: 3.2K W3-D0-L2
    Apoc games (mixture of armies used): W5-D0-L1

  7. #6
    LO Zealot Rafici's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matus View Post
    Game 3 I swapped to 3 tactical squads in rhinos with extra armor, 3 speeders, 10 assault marines, a command squad on bikes, captain on bike (feel no pain, woot!). I planned to get forward faster, deep strike the speeders and assault marines, turbo boost the bikes and move forward, smoke then move deploy and rapid fire the tacticals. one combat squad was left back to hold an objective. The rhinos all got hit in rafs first turn, despite the extra armor and smoke, the marker lights stripped one of its smoke cover, the other fell to weight of rail gun and missile pods. the marines bailed out and make a little line in the middle behind a couple of walls, the bikes got reduced to 3 men, but one was still the captain and the assault marines managed to drop at the back in range of the fire warriors (the few troops). the fire from the tactical bounced off the crisis armor (they had jumped out of rapid fire range and the heavy weapons had moved in an attempt to get cover, the assault marines managed to kill one and wound another with plasma pistols and bolt pistols but obviously could not assault yet. The bikes managed to charge a unit of 3 crisis suits, but with only a 50:50 change of wounding, and with only the captain with a power weapon they could only kill the shield drone, the crisis hit back, with S5 managed to do a couple of wounds, I lost the combat and promptly fled. In rafs turn he instant killed the captain with a rail gun, the assault marines were fired on by the fire warriors and fled, one tactical combat squad holding an objective got hit by a crisis unit and a broadside hit and fled. In my turn I had only about 12 tactical marines and one bike apothecary left. the speeders failed another reserve roll, nothing in range that was not hidden behind a building or a tank their guns could not hurt or that had rallied but could not do anything else. In rafs turn he mopped up more what was left and then hid again. We stopped then as I could not get back into range or more than one objective. The speeders would have automatically turned up next turn but would have been on their own.
    I didn't think anything of mine died ??
    I took 1 wound on a battlesuit but the shield drone saved all their attacks.

    Your IG have done the best of the armies but his biggest problem is the shield drones - without them the 1 las or Missile here or there would instant kill but when these keep getting put on shield drones and with very lucky rolling my me it does nothing.
    And dev squads could work but that is a lot of points with you want a couple of them.
    Tau: 6K - W17-D3-L4, Orks: 4K - W9-D0-L2, SM: 7K - W7-D3-L4,CSM: 4K W5-D1-L1, Nids: 3.2K W3-D0-L2
    Apoc games (mixture of armies used): W5-D0-L1

  8. #7
    Senior Member slobulous's Avatar
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    His IG army simply is not packing enough firepower, and it is also illegal. The Vet squads can only take a single heavy flamer or single heavy weapon team. Put some nastier weapons in them. After that is corrected, changing the Exterminators to LRBTs would be a good place to start. The AP3 and STR 8 would deny the Crisis suits their armor save, and instant death them. Next, I would change the Punisher to a Demolisher with hull lascannon. This will be able to seriously threaten the Broadsides. Then, I would drop the advisors in the CCS to give them 4x plasma guns. Lastly, I would drop the Storm Troopers and Marbo for an Infantry Platoon with autocannons and grenade launchers.
    Last edited by slobulous; April 15th, 2010 at 22:16.
    I WANNA GET STUCK IN WIT DA BOYZ

  9. #8
    LO Zealot Rafici's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slobulous View Post
    His IG army simply is not packing enough firepower, and it is also illegal. The Vet squads can only take a single heavy flamer or single heavy weapon team. Put some nastier weapons in them. After that is corrected, changing the Exterminators to LRBTs would be a good place to start. The AP3 and STR 8 would deny the Crisis suits their armor save, and instant death them. Next, I would change the Punisher to a Demolisher with hull Lascannon. This will be able to seriously threaten the Broadsides. Then, I would drop the advisors in the CCS to give them 4x plasma guns. Lastly, I would drop the Storm Troopers and Marbo for an Infantry Platoon with autocannons and grenade launchers.
    That sounds good (as i dont have IG codex) i assum the LRBT's put out a lot of shots - cos atleast 2 have to wound to get past the shield drone which just doesn't wanna die.
    Again is that a 1 shot lascannon?? cos that wouldn;t work.
    I think these are great ideas sorry if im critical and question it i just noticed that you need enough instant death to by pass the shield drones.
    thanks for your help.

    I think what you are saying with troops is more like what he took when he done his gun line.
    Tau: 6K - W17-D3-L4, Orks: 4K - W9-D0-L2, SM: 7K - W7-D3-L4,CSM: 4K W5-D1-L1, Nids: 3.2K W3-D0-L2
    Apoc games (mixture of armies used): W5-D0-L1

  10. #9
    Senior Member matus's Avatar
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    337 (x6)

    Quote Originally Posted by slobulous View Post
    His IG army simply is not packing enough firepower, and it is also illegal. The Vet squads can only take a single heavy flamer or single heavy weapon team. Put some nastier weapons in them. .
    sorry, badly worded, the chimera had 2 heavy flamers, as I was told never to disembark the vets just to drive by I didn't take a heavy weapon, just all the specials I could find in my bits box (no meltas :-( )

    Getting hold of some battle cannon turrets may be a good idea, I only have the exterminator ones atm but they can't be that hard to get hold of. Do you think a demolisher would be able to make it into range of a broadside that deploys touching his own table edge, thats at least 12" of open ground before i can get into range and (demolisher is only 24" isn't it?)

    What would you do with the infantry platoons? How would you get them to the point where they can see the crisis suits to shoot them when they hide out of LOS every turn? Are mortars any good, they'd not be able to hide, but the odds of hitting are low, wounding is only 50% and the armour save will save 66% of wounds?

    My other half has been helping try and bulk out my heavy support (cookie company ftw):

    Last edited by matus; April 15th, 2010 at 22:53.

  11. #10
    LO Zealot Rafici's Avatar
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    I dont think melta's would do much against the army i was fielding - to short range - not many veh on table.
    Tau: 6K - W17-D3-L4, Orks: 4K - W9-D0-L2, SM: 7K - W7-D3-L4,CSM: 4K W5-D1-L1, Nids: 3.2K W3-D0-L2
    Apoc games (mixture of armies used): W5-D0-L1

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