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So, while building my 'cron army I've noticed that, even though the race is seen as "underpowered", I seem to do just fine against almost all armies I play against. Even though glance has taken a beating, and "close combat" might as well be renamed to "necrons die", I seem to glance down vehicles and put up enough of a fight to keep me above a 70% win ratio.
HOWEVER, as soon as I play against a close-combat oriented army (in my case mostly my brother's Khorne-based CSM army) I have to make use of every cheap little tactic and/or rule glitch, together with boring units such as The Nightbringer, or Tomb Spyders en masse. So, I've figured, unless the 'crons get their much-needed codex update before I'm done collecting 5000'ish points of them (at almost 4000 now, steadily growing), I want to start building another army on the side, mostly to discourage my brother and his friends' constant close combat armies they seem to always build when playing against me lately.
Now, I don't want a MEQ army, since everyone and their mother plays SM/CSM or one of those SM chapters that are just SM but with cheaper rules, and I'd like to pick an army that's considered an underdog, since it means it'll still be a challenge to play. I do, however, want the army to be somewhat decent at close combat. At least good enough to not instantly bend over when Khorne Berzerkers are closing in.
So far, from what I can see, Orks, Tyranids and Chaos Daemons seem like decent close combat oriented armies. Since none of them are commonly played over here, they'd all be decent to start with, but my main gripe is that they all seem to be very one-dimensional, maybe with the exception of Orks. The problem with Orks is that they're really far from what I like about an army, fluff-wise, whereas Tyranids, who have a much "better" feel to them, seem really limited in their choices, and Daemons just feel like a bunch of old CSM units thrown into their own team for some random reason.
Another team that's caught my attention lately is Dark Eldar, mostly because they apparently are really really underpowered, while, looking at their stat lines, they don't seem too weak if you actually put some effort into organizing a decent army. My problem with them, however, is that they seem to be pretty much the exact same thing as 'crons, gameplay-wise (mid range firing line with limited other options).
I may be completely wrong about all my assumptions so far, since I've only got the rulebook to check on race stats, and that is why I'm making this topic. If someone would take their time to give me some good and bad sides about the non-MEQ teams, preferably with focus on close combat, that would be lovely. If not, thanks for reading my wall of text.
Dark eldar will probably be receiving a new codex soon... I would wait for that.
Other than that I would choose tryanids, they have just got a new codex, they are awesome in close combat, and compared to all the other new codexes, they are no where near as overpowered.
Sounds exactly what you were wanting.
And howd you mean "lack of actuall troops"? tyranids have one of the most diverse troops sections around and you can make that even more varied with upgrades. If your talking about units in general, we've got shedloads of them aswell so im quite confused by that.
But if your worried about only being able to run one type of list, dont worry about it at all. As son of the emperor says, its an incredibly balanced codex and there are many, many builds of list you can take.
Your friendly neighbourhood gargantuan creature
Well, if your information's correct, 'nids seem like the race I should go for. Though I'd still like to hear at least some info and opinions about daemons and orks.
Slaw, I have no answers for you, but questions. I haven't played Necrons since before the book came out. So I don't know how the later troops do in hand to hand. It looked to me like the flayed ones and the pariahs and the wraiths were meant for close combat, but they are not doing the job? With a collection as big as yours, you must have a bunch of these. I'm asking because I'm a little interested in Necrons and was hoping the book addressed the close combat problem, but it sounds like it hasn't?
Thanks for your help
Flayed Ones are about as good as a normal Space/Chaos Marine in close combat, but they have no ranged weapons, and move in small groups, while taking up an elite slot. They also have no way to bypass armor/invul. saves.
Wraiths hit hard, but they also die hard. With one wound each and low toughness, you're lucky if they even get close enough to assault something, seeing as they come in groups of three or less. Once again, no way to bypass saves.
Pariahs are... bad. Expensive, no WBB roll, slow, and only one attack a piece. They also hit after pretty much every other close combat oriented unit, meaning they'll be down to half size or so before they even get to attack.
Pariahs plus Flayed Ones plus a close combat Lord is decent in close combat, being able to eat up most other close combat units thanks to the Flayed One special rules in conjunction with Pariah and Lord leadership modifiers. However, moving such a huge group around, 6 inches a turn, means they'll be shot to death before they reach something. My brother also likes fielding a sorcerer with Lash of Submission, making every kind of group assault impossible, since he'll always get the first assault.
The Nightbringer and The Deceiver can, without problem, kill twice their point cost in close combat troops, but as I see it, a race shouldn't be limited to one unit if it wants a close combat punch. The 'crons do, however, have crazy good firepower, if you can stay out of close combat.
Last edited by Slaw; August 2nd, 2010 at 15:07.
I'll say something for the orks as I think they're the best choice in this situation. My favorite thing about orks is that they are extremely fun to play. The units are so varied and unique. I can't think of a single unit in the whole dex that I don't like. (I like flash gitz i just dont play them).
We have great HQ's for super cheap, like the warboss and Big Mek and our characters are also very fun and actually worth their points, such as Ghazkull and Snikrot.
I think we have some of the most exciting elites choices in the game with Nob Squads (or nob biker squads), Lootas, Kommandos, and Burna Boyz.
Our basic troops are very good and well worth their small points cost, even the lowly grots.
Fast attack choices are great, I love the bikers and rokkit buggies and deffkopters are awesome. Plus stormboyz kick butt, orks with rokkits strapped to their backs, yes plz.
Our heavy choices are great as well, besides flash gitz. This is where the mighty deffrolla battlewagon lives along with killa kan squads (best/coolest walkers in the game) and deff dreads, and hilarious looted wagons. The big guns teams are also very good for their small price.
All in all i think orks have some of the most fun units in the game and they excel at close combat. I really enjoy playing with them as well as painting and modeling them. As for the fluff, I really like it, it may not be your thing but I just love the way orks think and act, I suggest reading the codex fluff if you havent already the war for armageddon is a really fun story. The orks may fit you or they may not, but I love them, just my 2 cents.
I really like the ork fluff, but seeing as I fell for the 'crons because of their fluff, I'm much more partial to the 'nid thinking than the ork one. Orks, however, do have some pretty cool troops. Their special characters and WAAAGH rule, zzap guns and so on make them really interesting. One problem, though, is that I'm horrible at painting skin. At least 'nids are supposed to look alien. Orks are basically huge buff green men.
Ork skin is actually really easy to paint and you can get good results with only 3 steps. If you paint the skin goblin green and then wash it with devlan mud then ogryn flesh it turns out looking quite good. If you wanted to get more intricate you can layer different greens but the 3 step process works just fine and is fast. Good luck deciding!