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  1. #1
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Just another rule question x3

    I have three rule clarifications that I'd love to hear about:
    1) In a multi-level ruined building, Scouts are on the top level and Daemonettes are on the floor below them. There is room on the top floor with the Scouts. In order for the Daemonettes to assault: a) Must reach the top level with a roll on 2d6 taking the highest roll, a 3 or better since the levels are 3", b) Must roll 2d6 taking the highest roll and must get the actual distance between the head of the Daemonette and the base of the Scout (2" in this case) or c) The Daemonette can automatically attack because she is on the floor directly below the Scouts.
    2) A Librarian Dreadnaught (Blood Angels) targets a Soul Grinder with a shooting psychic attack and fails his psychic test. Since he never really attacked the Soul Grinder and the Soul Grinder is out of range of an assault, can it:a) then turn around and attack Pink Horrors that are 5" away or b) cannot attack anything because the Soul Grinder was the target whether the attack worked or not and the Soul Grinder is out of range.
    3) A Soul Grinder attacks a Predator tank in an assault. The Soul Grinder Shakes the tank and nothing more. Next turn, the tank does not move. On Soul Grinders' turn, he does not move from base contact. What happens on Soul Grinders' assault turn: a) Soul Grinder attacks with his base attacks plus one attack for initiating the attack because tanks cannot be locked in combat and it is technically a new battle, b) Soul Grinder should have moved 1" in his movement phase because all units not in combat need to be 1" away at all times. Because Soul Grinder did not move 1", he does not gain an extra attack. c) Soul Grinder does not get an extra attack because it is technically the same battle.

    On any of these questions has other choices, lets hear it. These questions came up in our fight today.


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  3. #2
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Nobody?

  4. #3
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    1) In a multi-level ruined building, Scouts are on the top level and Daemonettes are on the floor below them. There is room on the top floor with the Scouts. In order for the Daemonettes to assault: a) Must reach the top level with a roll on 2d6 taking the highest roll, a 3 or better since the levels are 3", b) Must roll 2d6 taking the highest roll and must get the actual distance between the head of the Daemonette and the base of the Scout (2" in this case) or c) The Daemonette can automatically attack because she is on the floor directly below the Scouts.
    I would say a), as you need to get into base to base contact to assault.
    2) A Librarian Dreadnaught (Blood Angels) targets a Soul Grinder with a shooting psychic attack and fails his psychic test. Since he never really attacked the Soul Grinder and the Soul Grinder is out of range of an assault, can it:a) then turn around and attack Pink Horrors that are 5" away or b) cannot attack anything because the Soul Grinder was the target whether the attack worked or not and the Soul Grinder is out of range.
    Huh, quite a tricky one. I would say that it has the same effect as a missed attack (i.e. cannot assault anything)
    3) A Soul Grinder attacks a Predator tank in an assault. The Soul Grinder Shakes the tank and nothing more. Next turn, the tank does not move. On Soul Grinders' turn, he does not move from base contact. What happens on Soul Grinders' assault turn: a) Soul Grinder attacks with his base attacks plus one attack for initiating the attack because tanks cannot be locked in combat and it is technically a new battle, b) Soul Grinder should have moved 1" in his movement phase because all units not in combat need to be 1" away at all times. Because Soul Grinder did not move 1", he does not gain an extra attack. c) Soul Grinder does not get an extra attack because it is technically the same battle.
    Battles involving (non walker) vehicles always count as a fresh assault - so you'd always get the extra attack.
    Last edited by realitycheque; September 28th, 2010 at 14:18. Reason: Formatting
    My Deathwatch Campaign
    Furious Angels: (SM) W22, D1, L9 (BA) W15, D0, L3 | Sentinels of Saphery (HE) W3, D0, L0

  5. #4
    Venerable Member Takeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    1) In a multi-level ruined building, Scouts are on the top level and Daemonettes are on the floor below them. There is room on the top floor with the Scouts. In order for the Daemonettes to assault: a) Must reach the top level with a roll on 2d6 taking the highest roll, a 3 or better since the levels are 3", b) Must roll 2d6 taking the highest roll and must get the actual distance between the head of the Daemonette and the base of the Scout (2" in this case) or c) The Daemonette can automatically attack because she is on the floor directly below the Scouts.
    No question about it, it's a).

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    2) A Librarian Dreadnaught (Blood Angels) targets a Soul Grinder with a shooting psychic attack and fails his psychic test. Since he never really attacked the Soul Grinder and the Soul Grinder is out of range of an assault, can it:a) then turn around and attack Pink Horrors that are 5" away or b) cannot attack anything because the Soul Grinder was the target whether the attack worked or not and the Soul Grinder is out of range.
    It's b). You do still declare your shot (i.e. the direction) before you roll psychic test, specifically for this kind of thing. One precedent is the Rune Priest's Jaws of the World World, which has been FAQ'd specifically about targeting.

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    3) A Soul Grinder attacks a Predator tank in an assault. The Soul Grinder Shakes the tank and nothing more. Next turn, the tank does not move. On Soul Grinders' turn, he does not move from base contact. What happens on Soul Grinders' assault turn: a) Soul Grinder attacks with his base attacks plus one attack for initiating the attack because tanks cannot be locked in combat and it is technically a new battle, b) Soul Grinder should have moved 1" in his movement phase because all units not in combat need to be 1" away at all times. Because Soul Grinder did not move 1", he does not gain an extra attack. c) Soul Grinder does not get an extra attack because it is technically the same battle.
    It's a mix of all 3. I used to think it was a), but recently found out at a tournament that it was not. When I got home, looked it up carefully, and it is the case. This includes the predator's turn. Here's how it works:

    >Soul grinder's turn - soul grinder gets base attacks +1 for charge.
    >Predator's turn - predator doesn't move and is still in contact with soul grinder - on predator's assault phase, soul grinder get's base attacks only - it is an ongoing assault, not a new one.
    >Soul grinder's next turn - soul grinder gets base attacks +1 for charge, as he is now technically assaulting the vehicle again.

    Note that in the predator's turn, the soul grinder is still in an ongoing assault with it. The predator cannot get LOCKED in an assault, which is something different. It may move away in it's movement phase if it chooses to. However, if it doesn't, then on its own assault phase, the attackers keep on hitting.
    Rulebook p.63

  6. #5
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
    >Soul grinder's turn - soul grinder gets base attacks +1 for charge.
    >Predator's turn - predator doesn't move and is still in contact with soul grinder - on predator's assault phase, soul grinder get's base attacks only - it is an ongoing assault, not a new one.
    >Soul grinder's next turn - soul grinder gets base attacks +1 for charge, as he is now technically assaulting the vehicle again.

    Note that in the predator's turn, the soul grinder is still in an ongoing assault with it. The predator cannot get LOCKED in an assault, which is something different. It may move away in it's movement phase if it chooses to. However, if it doesn't, then on its own assault phase, the attackers keep on hitting.
    Rulebook p.63
    I understand under Successive Turns on page 63 of the rulebook, That it would go like this:
    1) Turn 1 - Soul Grinder attacks and gets +1 attacks. 2) Turn 2 Predator doesn't move, but Soul Grinder cannot attack because they aren't locked in combat. 3) On Soul Grinders' turn, he can shoot then assault without the +1 attack using the rule in the rulebook: "Models that are still in base contact with a vehicle in it's Assault phase may attack it again, just as in a normal ongoing assault". Now a normal ongoing assault suggests you don't get an extra attack in this turn. Which means one of the models would have to move out of base contact with each other by at least 1" in order for Soul Grinder to get an extra attack for assaulting. That's the way I worked it out....

  7. #6
    Venerable Member Takeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    I understand under Successive Turns on page 63 of the rulebook, That it would go like this:
    1) Turn 1 - Soul Grinder attacks and gets +1 attacks. 2) Turn 2 Predator doesn't move, but Soul Grinder cannot attack because they aren't locked in combat. 3) On Soul Grinders' turn, he can shoot then assault without the +1 attack using the rule in the rulebook: "Models that are still in base contact with a vehicle in it's Assault phase may attack it again, just as in a normal ongoing assault". Now a normal ongoing assault suggests you don't get an extra attack in this turn. Which means one of the models would have to move out of base contact with each other by at least 1" in order for Soul Grinder to get an extra attack for assaulting. That's the way I worked it out....
    On the predator's turn, in the assault phase, the soul grinder still attacks.
    It is not locked in combat, but still, it is in an ongoing assault with the predator by virtue of the fact that it is in base contact, which is what is said on p.63
    Now look at p.9 - where it explains the difference between game turns and player turns. It explains that the default will always be player turns, and that you only use game turns when explicit. Thus, on p.63, when in an ongoing combat with a vehicle over successive turns because the assaulted vehicle did not move, it means successive player turns, not game turns; you resolve hits on the predator's assault phase as well as the soul grinder's.
    Last edited by Takeda; September 28th, 2010 at 22:09.

  8. #7
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    Takeda is right on all counts. I just want to add that it's very important to differentiate with your opponent if a piece of terrain is a building or a ruin.

    If it's a complete building, and not in shambles, then you move directly up a floor with 3in of movement. If it's a ruins, then you measure head to base, using the actual distance between the models.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  9. #8
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, 1) IS in a ruined building, not a regular building. So in a ruin it is head to base then?

  10. #9
    The Future realitycheque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    I'm sorry, 1) IS in a ruined building, not a regular building. So in a ruin it is head to base then?
    If it wasn't a ruin, the other unit would not have been able to enter it to assault so the answers above still stand
    My Deathwatch Campaign
    Furious Angels: (SM) W22, D1, L9 (BA) W15, D0, L3 | Sentinels of Saphery (HE) W3, D0, L0

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