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Not me, I win my fair share with no complaints here. But it wasn't always the way. I had such a hard time winning with Chaos Daemons just over a year ago that I thought maybe I was going to give the game up. I thought I wasn't cut out for it. Now in our gaming group, a couple of good guys have said the same thing; if they can't win, they may quit. I want to help those who are in the same boat so you can get over it and get into winning more:
1) Read this forum. Each army has tactica and lists. Read these areas and try to help yourself using the wisdom posted.
2) Take a step back and get a fresh look. Sometimes we get into a rhythm of doing things a certain way and just stick to it because it may be easier or just what you are used to. Sometime by stepping back away from your routine, you can spot mistakes. I like to tear up my list and just make something completely different.
3) Change up your list. Be radical if you want to. I made 5 different lists at each point level that we usually play at and then tried them all. When I found a list that worked better, I tweeked it until it was my winning list.
4) Collect a new army. This saved my 40K gaming career. When I was struggling with Daemons, I bought a bunch of CSM's and played them. After a while, I went back to Daemons with a fresh new attitude and turned them around too.
5) Find a unit that seems to do well and expand your numbers of them. When I was retooling my Daemons, I found that Pink Horrors were out performing my other troop choices. I bought more and experimented with unit size and Daemonic gifts. I added one Chariot of Tzeentch and loved it so much, I added another. Those two unit changes were the foundation of my winning list.
6) Try different deployment options if you have them. There are infiltrators, scouts, outflankers, deep strikers, transport options available to you. Try them in different combinations. My son in experimenting with this and his Marines had Kor'ssaro Khan which allows his units to outflank. He started with nothing on the board, instead choosing to use a drop pod and outflank everything. His opponent was caught off guard and he won. In using my CSM, I never used much of any deployment options. I then decided to outflank 5 Choosen; 4 with meltaguns and one missile launcher. The first time I did this, I busted my opponent's Landraider.
7) Check your wargear again. With my Daemons, I was taking so many Daemonic gift options that I thought I needed. When I looked again at how much I used them or if I could do almost as well without them, I saved literally over 100 points when I didn't use them. This will pay for a vanilla Daemon Prince or a unit of troops. Sometimes you just don't need those little perks more than you need more units on the board.
8 ) Check your overall strategy. This is hard for some people because some people are just more naturally strategy oriented than others. Mixing up the way you do business, targeting vital units, setting up your heavy hitters and shielding your vital units is important in winning and anyone can learn the fundamentals of it.
9 ) Learn other codices other than yours. Being familiar with your opponent's codex helps you target their best units, avoid their strengths, exploit their weaknesses and make sure they don't cheat. Today, a Necron player claimed his Monolith hit every MODEL with 1d6 shots each. That means if he rolls a 5 on a unit of 10, he would claim to have 50 shots against them. My partner agreed. I on the other hand know better and asked for his codex. The Necron players shoulders sank when I read him that the weapon did 1d6 shots per UNIT and not per model.
10 ) Know the rules and use them to your advantage when you can. In the same game, the Necron player wanted a 4+ cover save for his Monolith from intervening models. My partner may have given it to him if I didn't know that his Monolith needed to be covered 50% by terrain etc in order to claim the 4+ cover. Knowing the rules, like knowing the codices, will help you to sort out what can and cannot be done.
11 ) Quality and Quantity in perfect harmony. I've talked about this in a post, but it is really true. Sometimes, you pick those really expensive models because they are big and scary. But in some cases, those big units aren't worth it. I was playing daemons and winning. I decided to change things up and upgrade my Great Unclean One to Ku'Gath, which was 90 points more. I started to lose. I switched back and started to win again. Funny thing was, Ku'Gath did really well. So what went wrong? GUO plus the 90 points of models did a better job than Ku'Gath. That Landraider is 250 points or more. In my mind, it has to do 251 points of damage to be worth it (or keep 251 points of models safe). If it gets busted in the first round, it creates a big hole in your army. If you are finding that you are losing and you have expensive units, retool your list without them. Just let them go for a game or two and see what happens.
If there are more words of encouragement this forum can give to people who are struggling or you are a person who is struggling, I'd love to hear from you. 40K is a fun game and I'd hate to see people get frustrated by not winning their fair share.
Last edited by andrewbeater; June 23rd, 2011 at 05:46. Reason: Brackets turn into icon for some reason
That's a well thought-out post. I'm pretty new to 40K and I don't win many games yet, but hopefully I'm getting better!
I can appreciate that it can be dis-heartning if you always seem to lose, but please can we all get over this "I've got to win" mentality....
I mean Jeez. The hobby is about far more than winning and losing isn't it?
If you contemplate leaving the hobby because you can't win, then you're missing the point of the hobby - yes I know losing is no fun, but this hooby is multi-faceted. It's not about winning or losing. Really it isn't - yes they're factors, but's more to the hobby - I don't quit because I've been painting twenty (or so) years and still haven't won a 'demon. I keep at it and I keep getting better until the day I do win one. And if I never do - well so what? I know some "dogs bollocks" artists that don't even ENTER!
I would suspect that a person who walks away completely for "not winning" won't just walk away from this hobby, but the next, the next, the next and the one after that....
To those who can't hack it as a loser.....
1. Take a step back - did you enter the hobby to win games? or because it was a cool hobby to be in?
2. Look at the yourself - do you have to win at everything you do in life? If so, seek help now.
3. Look at other people - maybe you're not the only one, are there others who regulary lose?
4. Look at the bigger picture - aren't there more important things anyway?
Last edited by Fantasticmrfox; June 23rd, 2011 at 15:00.
There's being unable to win because you earn a low salary and play ten games a year with what you have against those with an unlimited budget who play ten games a week, then there's being unable to win because you're doing something fundamentally wrong yourself, like moaning about how cack 40k is and how every codex you don't own is "broken" and you do nothing but reinforce your own mistakes.
I spent years playing in the first instance and it almost drove me to leave the hobby, but I realised that GW games aren't the centre of the universe and with a wife and daughter my priorities changed and I now have better things to do with my time. I now play occasional fun games against others of a similar disposition and have a great time doing so because I no longer have to deal with gamers of the second instance.
In my twenty-five years' experience it's all about getting your priorities right. If you spend too much time trying to win at all your GW games then you will either come to despise others for losing and being weak because you've become some sort of creature who spends far too much time living in fantasy, or you'll become despised by others because you'll keep trying and failing because you've no sense of direction except that which you've chosen.
I know both andrewbeater and Fantasticmrfox as sensible wordsmiths on this forum and it pains me to see you two falling out over games bloody workshop. It's this sort of thing that gets people wound up and opens GW up to accusations of hobby ruination. It goes to show that it's the game that turns people against one another rather than people being disagreeable in the first place. THIS is what crushes peoples' interest in GW games. Try to treat them like games rather than exams and you'll feel better whether you win or lose.
Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
I won't play gamesthat I don't think I'll enjoy, win or lose - because statistically, you're going to lose some of them so it's a better investment of your time of you can still have a good night of it as you go down fighting. And it's certainly thematically appropriate to lose battles in 40K.
That said, there's pleasure to be had in doing something as well as you can, and increasing your success rate is a way of measuring that.
There's a big difference between wanting to win all the time, and not wanting to lose all the time. Seems folk are getting caught up in the former, when the thread is really about the latter. People get into the hobby for different reasons. Some are more focused on modeling and painting side of it. But there is still a game that puts two (or more) people in competition with each other. Both of those people are trying to win, that's kinda the point.
It's a shame that it seems that the people that are likely to lose most all the time are also the people that are least likely to read this thread. They aren't people that read tactica or discuss unit merits online. So, I guess the best bit of advice I can give is: when you see your friends struggling, don't tell them that it's only a game and they should worry about other things. That only diminishes their interest in a fun and (what I consider to be) rewarding hobby. Instead, help guide them. Be the bridge to help bring that knowledge to them. Either study the tactica yourself and pass that knowledge along, or see if you can lead them to find the information themselves. Everybody needs help in different ways. But wiping them from the table and then telling them what they did wrong does not encourage someone that wants to give up to to learn to do better. It only affirms that the game is somewhere they don't belong.
The second instance of "losership" certainly wasn't aimed at you. I've been a poor man (although a healthy one for which I am eternally grateful-I see injured soldiers daily at my workplace and consider myself very lucky) and spent years losing to others I considered friends, who constantly ripped me to shreds for my enforced failures and eventually I stopped playing because I was a victim of both losing circumstances (mine and those forced upon me by others). I was through perseverance put where I am now and even if I don't get any number of games, I am content that the evil spell has been broken and that GW games no longer rule my life or the relationships I have with my family and friends.
Chaps, you CAN get through the seemingly-endless losses and come out with a few happy wins under your belt. Don't let the game take you over, because that's all it is.
Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.