What I've Got vs. What I Want - help me out here - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    What I've Got vs. What I Want - help me out here

    Well, my annual LGS is having a bit of a yardsale in the near future. It works out for everyone, so I try to support them with my efforts. I've been looking at getting back into 40k for YEARS. Every few months, or every new codex, I see something interesting and try to bring myself to play it, but can never seem to scratch up the funds or the willpower to spend those funds on 40k models, as previous experiences have left a bad taste in my mouth. So here's what I want to do: sell off my 3500pts (iIRc) of Vanilla Marines and try to pick up a new army from the rubble. What I need help with is figuring out what I should sell, how much it should sell for, what I should keep, and what I want to buy.

    I have on the chopping block:

    35 Tactical Marines w/ Bolters
    3 Tac Sarges w/ BP&CS
    2 Tac Sarges w/ Power Wapons
    5 Tacs w/ Flamers
    5 Tacs w/ Missiles
    3 Tacs w/ Plasma Cannons
    3 Tacs w/ Lascannons
    15-20 Tacs w/ BP&CCWs converted to wear capes, 2-3 with Power Weapons
    5 AoBR Termies w/ bitz-ordered metal Lightning Claw pairs, I still have the original SB/PF arms
    1 AoBR Captain
    12 Assault Marines - converted to wear tabbards
    2 Assault Sarges w/ PF, tabbards
    1 Assault Marine w/ Plasma Pistol, tabbards
    5 Assault Marines w/ Necromunda Eshin wings, 1 w/ a Banner, 1w/ Powerfist, rest with Powerswords (good for chaos, or BA maybe)
    2 Landspeeders w/ MM/HB options
    1 Dreadnought w/ all weapon options
    1 AoBR Dreadnought
    Multiple converted and stock Chaplains and Captains with various wargear

    I've also got a converted Vindicator using an open-topped Rhino with a Basilisk gun and platform on it (WW2-era mobile anti-tank gun themed) that I doubt is even worth selling, as well as several of the old "Matchbox" Rhinos, Predators, and Whirlwinds that I'd like to hang onto unless they're worth more now.
    Just about everything is either painted or base-coated, and I'm not going to lie to myself and call it a "pro" job. I'll sell the stuff as an army deal, or split it up. I'd like pricing ideas for it if possible.

    As for what I'd want to put the cash towards:
    I've been thinking about picking up a few different projects to get back into weekly 40k nights at my local. From what I've gathered, it's the typical bunch of younger, whiny, mediocre players, that are sadly stereotypical of the 40k demographic. There are some talented players in the mix though, as well the fact that several of my friends are getting back into the game. I've got to admit that I want a cheesed-out, beatstick of an army, so I've narrowed it down to these ideas-

    GKs- Draigowing, CrowePurifiers, or Coteaz
    SM Biker army
    Ork NobBikerz army
    Eldar Saim-Hann (biker army)
    Dark Eldar
    Harlequin-based army (Eldar or Dark Eldar, whoever does it better)
    Guard Airwing

    I want to know which of these is going to be most competitive, and roughly how expensive each would be to build. I know there's probably about ZERO chance of me being able to keep any of my existing collection, but let me know if there's anything that I shouldn't sell when building this army.

    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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  3. #2
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    I'm actually going through something similar right now myself.

    I originally had an Ultramarines army about 10 years ago, dropped it and didn't look at it until recently. Couple of buddies of mine were interested in the game and I threw together a little exhibition. They loved it, bought their own armies and play regularly now.

    My original thought was to just to finish painting the original army, but to me, space marines were boring. Yes, yes, everyone wants to play the hero but I wanted something with a little more grit. Enter Imperial Guard novels, new codex and I was sold.

    So I started up a mechanized regiment, leaving the Space Marines on the shelf. Sure I cannabalized a few melta/plasma guns and a few bits, but mostly they just sat there.

    So I'm pawning them off on my friends. I've set up a standing deal that I'll sell em for half what the GW website quotes for prices. Now my models are pretty old and not converted or anything, so I don't have any particular connection to them (lotta metal models too, hated painting them). Some went to a Chaos player (converted a predator and dreadnought), some went to a BA player (wanted some tactical marines for flexibility) and a few to another SM player who was going to repaint them. I was selling them to friends though, so if you want maximum value for your army you may just need to put it on consignment at the store you'd be buying the new army from or they might take a trade?

    As far as cheese, it seems to me like whoever has the newest codex has the coolest toys. Both Dark Eldar and Grey Knights just got new codicies and they do have some nice things. HOWEVER, I will temper this with saying that tactics play a huge role in how good an army is. You could have all the sweet rules and special exceptions you want, but if your strategy/tactics are bad, it won't matter.

    If you're really looking for a change, sell off all the space marines and start completely fresh. It might bring back the drive to play and give you a challenge of learning a new army's nuances.

    I hope this helps some, sorry for the rambling.
    General Van Rensaler
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  4. #3
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    I have acquired several marines over the years (my tyranids needed things to stand on and rip apart) and now I have a good chunk of a marine army. I'd like to finish it out.

    Generally though I'd think twice about buying something from anyone unless it was off of eBay or something. eBay is probably your best option actually. Just remember to set a reserve price so you don't get screwed.

  5. #4
    Member kzqq's Avatar
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    I would like to start off by saying that as a player looking for a fresh start, you should try to avoid highly themed armies. Seeing as you would be buying and painting a large number of models, do you really want to be doing the same ones over and over. (e.g. 20 bikes or harlequin) Secondly, it limits your play styles heavily as you can really only swap out a heavy support each game due to your army needing to maintain its specialized synergy.

    Now your most cost effective option would be some sort of space marine variation seeing as you already have the framework covered, however I would stay clear from these guys altogether as they may be part of the reason you initially lost interest. Out of the armies you listed that you are interested in, the most competitive would be the dark eldar, guard (air), purifiers. I would be cautious with nob bikers though, I've seen them completely destroy armies and other times they simply get destroyed themselves. Overall, I would deem the nobs as an average army simply because you gamble too much. The same can be said for the draigo wing as a few high str weapons can just debilitate a squad. To make your decision a bit my clear:

    Dark eldar - If you don't mind the thought of 1500 points consisting of 4 raiders and 2+ ravagers (competitive), with an additional 1-2 raiders per 500 points, then it could work for you.

    Guard airwing - Keep in mind that the aircraft take up very little points, in games over 1500 points the army will look mostly like a typical guard list. - this army is most likely to be the best in competitive play

    Purifiers - you can recycle your rhinos with this list. While highly competitive, I think it would become quite mundane to simply run 3-4 squads of purifiers and 3 rifle dreadnoughts over and over.

    Nob bikers/draigowing - The armies and small (less to paint) and kind to your wallet. However, keep in mind, most games will end with you completely decimating or being decimated. It depends on how many big guns your opponent brought.

    Lastly, moving on to the sale of your existing armies. I myself have recently gotten back into 40k and I too wanted to start fresh. Within the last year I sold my 1500 pts of CSM (thousand sons) and 1500 pts of necrons. I live in a major city (Toronto) so there was a good number of people willing to make offers and deal with. I found that unpainted or primed models were the easiest to sell. The necrons took 2 months to sell and cashed in for 55% of retail price. My CSM took around 4-5 months to sell and had to be sold in pieces as hardly any people purchase whole armies. I found that separating the army into pieces increases your return to 60-65% of retail. I would say not to expect more than 70% back from what you payed unless your painting is extremely high quality. Old models tend to go for less than the newer models unless you really can't tell the difference. People generally don't buy conversions either. I would honestly sell everything that you don't have some kind of attachment to. The last thing you would want is to have a box or 2 full of models that you don't care about, which could have been sold.

    In summary, sell whatever your comfortable parting with. Choose a fresh army considering the points listed above. Ask for 70% of retail price, accept as low as 55%. You don't want to find yourself denying a buyer because you feel you can make $5 more, only to be still sitting on the item months later with no offers in sight. Bundle things together and offer a slightly larger discount to get the items moving, despite nearly 50% off, warhammer doesn't always sell fast. Also accept the fact that you will have to do separate deals, only 1 out of 100 buyers will want to buy a whole lot of 70 marines at once These are my experiences selling in a highly populated area.
    Last edited by kzqq; July 11th, 2011 at 05:28.
    Tau my love! You are back!

  6. #5
    Senior Member Castiell's Avatar
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    Keep in mind - picking up Grey Knights would allow you to recycle a number of models (since the plastic gk kits come with a bazillion extra bits. Alternatively, spare High elf spears make great Nemesis Halberds) without too much effort, other then a paint job. And from what I can tell, there's quite some ways to play gk, aside from the cookie cutter Razorback/Psyflemen spam.
    The Silver Knights of Tor Adrac (He): 26/2/4
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  7. #6
    LO Zealot mynameisgrax's Avatar
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    I agree with literally everything kzqq said.

    I'd say the top 3 most competitive lists out of the ones you mentioned are:

    1. GK Purifier list. They're incredibly effective and you can re-use your rhinos and some basic marines.

    2. DE Harlequins backed up by large groups of Wyches and Haemonculi, all coming out of a Webway portal.

    3. Airguard. Although it's seen as cheesy by many, it's definitely a competitive build, no question.


    EDIT

    Forgot to mention why I didn't like the others: raider based DE are always very fragile. When they work, they work very well, but it's tough keeping them alive. They can definitely work, but you have to play very well, and also hope for dice to roll reasonably well.

    All bike armies have the same problems: not enough bodies in the army, massive amounts of long range enemy shooting, and no effective way to deal with completely mechanized armies.
    Last edited by mynameisgrax; July 11th, 2011 at 23:00.
    "Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
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  8. #7
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    Well, I'm definitely between Air Guard (Pig Iron Militia, all done up like WW2/'DUST' Germans, with ME.109 Valks) or Purifier GKs (in DarkAngel robe conversions).

    Some Questions
    - you say that the Valks won't take up much of my points allowance at 1850-2250pt games, so what do I fill out the rest with? I really like all the other fast attack choices (Detta Squads, and Sentinels would look so cool with Iron Crosses on the cab), but I know that the Flyers are going to take up all 3 slots. So do I use my Flyers for Scoring units and then back them up with LRBTs on the ground?
    - I haven't played for a while, and my rulebook has gone missing, but don't Skimmer/Flyer Squadrons have to stay within 3" of each other? How does this work out for Detta/Valk squads? I was thinking have 1 loaded transport and 1-2 other Flyers in the squadron to help out with the theme and the damage output of the squadron. Or running 2 squads of 2 to keep my Fast Attack open for something else.

    GKs
    -I've heard that they FAQ'd the Personal Teleporters on DreadKnights so that they no longer get the 12" move. Are DKs still viable, because I love how they look, but they're definitely too pricey to buy and then shelve because they underperform.
    -Crowe gets Henchmen, not Inducted Guard right? So I couldn't mix Airguard and GKs together.
    -How awesome are Storm Ravens? Would it be possible to play a GK Airwing effectively?

    Thanks for all of the help guys!
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  9. #8
    Member kzqq's Avatar
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    Hey I think you mean Coteaz gets henchmen, not crowe Yes you are correct though, they are strictly the henchmen listed in the gk codex - you aren't aloud choices from the IG codex in the same army. The dreadknights still teleport the full distance, but they can no longer be given the scout option from a grandmaster and teleport during their scout movement. You have to teleport during a standard movement phase. As it currently stands the DK is a decent enough option, but you have to choose whether you want it to hang back and shoot with heavy incinerator/psycannon or teleport and assault with a sword - giving it any more gear would make it too expensive. You see dreadknights more in draigo lists, standard dreadnoughts with psyrifle configuration are cheaper and do a better job generally. So to answer your question, you can always use one and it will be competitive, but multiple dreadknights should be reconsidered.

    Moving on to your airguard, have you considered the death korps of krieg forgeworld models? They look the part of the germans I believe and are simply awesome. Generally you don't see vehicle squadrons at 2000 points and under, so assuming you only took 3 vendetta gunships, your core army would look something like this:

    165 Company command squad + 4x plasma gun + chimera /w ml + flamer

    100 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun

    100 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun

    100 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun

    130 Vendetta gunship

    130 Vendetta gunship

    130 Vendetta gunship
    -------------------------
    855 points

    As you can see you are still very far from your goal of 2000 points. Generally, you will find yourself wanting to add another 2 veteran squads in chimeras or a platoon to give you the needed troops. For your heavy support, the LRBT, hydra, and medusa are all great options. I don't have a lot of experience with flying squadrons, but I would imagine that the need to remain with 3 inches as you stated. However, they could deploy their transported squads individually or together. So you would move to one location with both vendettas and unload one or both squads and then you could move to another next turn to deploy the other squad, but the vehicles must shoot at the same target. As I stated you don't see squadrons often because have 6 lascannons shooting at one target is over kill. Here is how I would personally build the army your looking for if your intent on using squadrons:

    165 Company command squad + 4x plasma gun + chimera /w ml + flamer

    155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer
    155 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun + chimera /w ml + flamer

    100 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun
    100 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun
    100 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun
    100 10 veteran squad + 3x meltagun

    260 2x Vendetta gunship
    260 2x Vendetta gunship
    120 2 armored sentinel 2x autocannon

    165 leman russ battle tank + lascannon
    180 leman russ demolisher + lascannon
    135 Medusa /w heavy bolter

    1995

    This army would be the definition of cheese as you were looking for
    Tau my love! You are back!

  10. #9
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    Nice- thank you for the lists! I have looked into the DKoK, and I do think that they're dead-sexy models, but they're about 2x the price of a Guardsman and they're Resin, whereas PigIron Militia look practically identical, are metal, and cost the same as 10 Guard. Pricey ($800!) army list either way, but I can cope.

    The strategy I assume would be to use the LRBT and Medusa sit back and provide long range anti-meq/horde support, while the Demolisher moves forward and keeps down Termies or even Transports, the Chimelta Squads are pretty much scoring melta-tanks, the Company Command is the same but with Plasma, and the Dettas keep moving flat-out unless I have a use for 6 Twinlinked Lascannons. Early in the game, drop 1 Vet-squad from each Flyer Sqaudron on an objective and then keep the other around for Scoring. Turn 5 use Chimeras (if still mobile) to grab/contest objectives, turn 6 use the two scoring Dettas for the same thing? That is a ****ing beatstick of an army...

    So why do Draigo lists use DKs instead of Psyflemen? Is it because the Paladins are an Elite choice? I thought that they'd have to be troops in order to fill the Force Org.
    I guess in a Purifier list, you've usually got something else taking the role of designated Close-assualt-guy, rather than the DKs. And you have your Psyfles doing the Long-range Transpopping at a cheaper price. That makes sense.

    Thanks tons for the help, rep to you good sir!
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  11. #10
    Member kzqq's Avatar
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    I'm glad you like the guard army ideas. You have the right idea about the strategy too, that's how I would use it. The DKs are used primarily in draigo lists because they act as a fire magnet. A full terminator army is extremely expensive to transport (Landraiders/ravens). You also don't want to deepstrike the entire army as you will not have hardly anything on the table from the start - these leaves you foot slogging. If you can buy your paladins a turn or two without being fired on (due to focus on the DK), you'll have your army advance largely intact. I'm bit confused with your wording here: "Is it because the Paladins are an Elite choice?" - Don't forget, draigo makes paladins a scoring troop choice. Also purifiers don't really need dedicated close combat units in their armies. For 295 pts you get 10x Purifiers + 4x Psycannon + 5x Halberds/1x Hammer. Each purifier has 2 attacks making that 10 initiative 6 halberd hits and 2 str 10 hammer, and the remaining initiative 4 hits from the psycannon guys in CC. (That's without the charge!) As you can see, purifiers can decimate at a range with 8 str 7 rending + storm bolters or assault with no trouble because of the previously mentioned stats.
    Tau my love! You are back!

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