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We have a modestly small group in our small city of 40k players. It's to the point now where even the somewhat petty players are loosening up and everyone is having fun. We really have a good group of people now and our game nights are for the most part fun. Until a few weeks ago. We have a tournament player from a city south of us coming up to play. He uses his overly tweeked tournament armies, especially his leaf blower IG list. This guy is a zealot for the rules as far as it concerns others and really overlooks his mistakes with the rules. With him, it's not about a fun game, it's all about winning. Since I play Daemons, we discussed all terrain features at the beginning of the game. During the game, he changed the terrain features to suit Deep Strike problems. Even after a discussion, he had to have it his way. Baby. He had two cocked die rolls that he sneakily flattened down into a 6 each time and acted like it never happened. My 12 year old son pulled his tape out to measure and popped it back then told us he forgot an order (he was playing Guard as well in this 2 on 2 battle). He was "no way, you measured. You can't do orders now. Blaa blaa blaa. He made a small, harmless mistake. In a high powered tournament, maybe no way, but amongst friends? Gimmie a break. He didn't relent until I got sick of the crap and started to mock him. He backed off a bit then.
Look, if all of you tournament guys are like this, stay away from me, please. I play for fun. I will forgive your minor mistakes. I will give you the extra hit if the template just catches a sliver of a base or is just on the edge. I will joke with you and you can joke back. We'll have fun. But as soon as you bring your win at all costs attitude, you can take it somewhere else.
Luckily I havent encountered this, yet. Im the same way you are, fun for fun sake. Yes there are some limits to bending the rules, but a "oops I forgot to do an order" shouldnt be anything in a non tournament/really competitive game.
I don't think it is restricted to 'tournament players' - I've encountered other wargamers and role-players with the same behavior. Certain types of people will soon find they are out of people to play with, then maybe they figure it out.
He's new to the social circle of your FLGS. He's probably applying behavior that was expected in his old social circle. There is nothing wrong with the way he plays, it's just not appropriate by the social contract you hold at your local store. You may have to sit him down and tell him "we don't play that way". Let him know what to expect from games at your FLGS. He'll either start adjusting to your style of play or he'll hopefully find a place where he can play the way he prefers.
Open communication. You're both adults. Talk it out.
And if that don't work, kick him in the junk.
Most tournament players don't (need to) cheat. That being said, any decent competitive player (imho) will be perfectly able to 'play nice' if his opponent comes ill prepared. You can play proper lists both nice and competitive, but you can't do both with a 'nice' list.
Also, asking this is about as innocent and 'not aiming to spark a discussion' as asking if all non-competetive players wear their pants on their head would be.
The Silver Knights of Tor Adrac (He): 26/2/4
The Spears of Slaanesh (Woc): 7/2/5
Battlegroup Chalybso (GK): 7/3/3
He doesn't sound half as bad as some cocky little 10 year old at my store. You know the summer apoc. battles some stores do? He took part with his poorly painted marines. Xenos, including my Tau, got first turn. Movement, he scooped up my models *without asking* and piled them down like 6" from an assault squad. I went to move them back, he said they can only move once in a movement phase. He managed to chip 3 of them too. I took him to one side and said, quite politely and understandingly, that I didn't want him touching my models because I spent a long time painting them and they haven't been coated with sealant yet. So he said that it was my fault for not sealing them, then to follow up he insulted the paint job which was clearly better than his, then going as far as to insult my choice of colours. He just walked away and went back to the table.
But that's not the worst bit. Oh no. Whenever I shot at him he insisted that I show him the codex, arguing over a few things in that, then when I rolled to shoot he made me come round his side of the table so he could see. At this point, I was a bit annoyed to say the least.
Then on his turn, he:
-shot before he moved
-shot again after he moved
-insisted lascannons are S10 AP1
-insisted boltguns were S6
After I tried to correct him, and failed, I was absolutely fuming.
Then the worst part. He picked up my hammerhead, again without asking, dropped it breaking the burst cannons and then 'accidentally' stepped on it, breaking both engines at the Railgun. I picked up the pieces, put them in my box and yanked him outside. I started yelling at him in the street, managing somehow not to swear and sounding like a complete douche to anyone not privy to what happened. He started yelling back, and, amongst other things, he said I didn't use the right sort of glue. At this point, I was just like Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu..........
So I decided to talk to his mother about it, since I knew he got picked up by her. I packed up my models from the table and went to repaint my fire warriors, and buying myself a new battlesuit to cheer myself up a bit.
I had a talk to his mother who promptly replaced the hammerhead with numerous apologies to boot.
True story, but it happened a year ago.
"Victory is sweet, blood is sweeter." - Aun'Vre
Tournament players have a reason to win and to question you with lots of rules at every corner, because thats what their suppossed to do, right? Or else they wouldn't take such an annoying army. They know the rules inside out so they try to abuse their knowledge. When it comes to cheating, I personally I think you should have someone independant watching over EVERY gaming table so that puts them off cheating. I've played my fair few tournament players and while I got smashed, I had fun. I feel sorry for you Aun'Vre those kids make me want to drop a manta on their face. The funny thing is though it is mainly new Space Marine players and because the staff have led them to believe Spesh mahrines r da best armie in da wurld and can never lose, that affects their attitude of how they play but I'm glad you was able to get revenge Aun'Vre, I bet he didn't think about doing it again .
One shall stand, and one shall fall.
Shrug, i live in a very heavily tournament area, the nova open is nearby and tourney players such as tony kopach and mike brandt go to the same GW as i do, and even though im only a casual gamer myself currently, i must say that the player described in the OP is in no way close to how most tournament players generally act. In all the games i've watched them play or the games where i've played against them, never once has it not been a good experience or were they less than great sports with both sides having the same amount of fun.
that's not to say that there aren't some tourney players elsewhere who aren't WAAC, but i think it's just more dependent on the person's character in general and not just whether he's a tourney player or not, as well as how their gaming community reacts to it.
for example, in some areas harassing your opponent about their rules/moves in an attempt to throw your opponent off their game is considered just part of the game.
I have to agree that it is more the person's attitude then questioning rules. I question rules all the time if i am unfamiliar with an army or am not sure if a unit can do something. However i make an effort to not be a jerk about it. I don't care if they needed to use this psychic power at the beginning of the movement phase instead of the end, nor to i care if he realized he didn't want to move that unit after he is in his shooting phase.
I bring a list for every opponent i play that has what every unit can do with a summary of there special rules. I want to have fun and win. not just win. It is just the golden rule of gaming that needs to be followed, "Don't be a D...".
Oh, and tell the tournament organizer if you had a bad experience with a player. Sometimes he can fix problems before they start by rewriting the tournament rules.
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
Aun'Vre...man...that's so insane I almost don't believe you. I can't believe that happened. That can be an episode from punk'd!