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I'll give you a scenario as it played out in our club today and I'd love to hear what you think of this because it happens TOO often everywhere and we as players should talk about it:
A Guard player is matched up one on one with a Grey Knights player. In the shooting phase, the Guard player proceeds to shoot. As he is about to roll to hit using his Lascannon against the GK players' Stormraven, the Guard player notices that the GK player is not paying attention. He says " Hey, I'm rolling to hit your Stormraven with my Lascannon here, I need <x> to hit and <x> to penetrate.". The Guard player hits the Stormraven, penetrates it then rolled a 5 to wreck it. The GK player looks up and says "Sorry, you'll have to reroll the penetration roll, I wasn't watching.".
Here are some other facts: The GK player didn't see any of the rolls against the Stormraven, but admitted that he only wanted the penetration roll rolled again for whatever reason; he didn't seem to care about the to hit and to penetrate rolls he missed. The penetration roll of 5 was still on the table near the Stormraven. The GK player claimed he did not hear the Guard players plea to watch the roll. The Stormraven was the third thing attacked during the same shooting sequence and the GK player watched those two rolls.
The arguments (and it was heated) went like this: The Guard player wanted the rolls to stand. His argument was he tried to make the other player watch his rolls and in a one on one match, the other players duty is to pay attention. He also argued that the only roll that the GK player was complaining about was still in the middle on the table for all to see.
The GK players arguments were that he was distracted by someone else (who was not talking to him) and the Guard player should have made good and sure that he was paying attention to his rolls. Since no one saw the roll, it should be rerolled.
To me, the Guard player is right. Each person is responsible to watch during rolls. If you cannot for some reason, you should verbally "time" yourself out. The Guard player tried to do the right thing, he just didn't realize that the GK player wasn't paying attention because he was too busy rolling. Oddly enough, there were some who thought the GK player was right because the Guard player should have made sure through verbal acknowledgement that he was watching. I think it sets a dangerous precedence to make the person reroll because that means that anyone at anytime can say they didn't watch a roll that went against them because they were distracted. Let the ideas flow from here.
To be honest, if they are friends then surely they can just roll off to see who is correct? If they are not friends then a Knife Fight to the Death! must ensue, winner is correct... and alive.
Agreed with the OP in siding with the IG player, that the result should stand.
Shrug, if it's a friendly game, then they should be trusting each other not to cheat (as what's the point) and it wouldn't matter; and even if it weren't and they couldn't exactly trust each other, such as a tournament game, than it'd still have been the GK player's duty to pay attention to what's going on in his match-up.
I sometimes get distracted during games too, but I can admit to it being my fault and not punish my opponent for it. Depending on the opponent, it can come off as disrespectful to them when they're trying to play a game with you and you're not giving back the same effort that they are.
Also, insert some sort of metaphor about it being similiar to getting distracted and watching the television during sex, you're always in the wrong for doing it.
Also, Like when you are in a Knife Fight with your missus and you are caught watching the TV, you're always in the wrong for doing it.
Last edited by DeathPoke; September 22nd, 2011 at 07:13.
This happened to me once when I first started playing, I didnt know what I needed to roll very well. I rolled to hit which I knew what I needed I then asked the guy what I would need to wound, as he was very seasoned. I rolled my X while he started talking to someone else not about the game or rules question or anything warhammer related. He asked me to re roll. I got lucky that I made more wounds, but still rubbed me the wrong way that we were having a friendly/learning game and while he knew what was going on decided that something else what way more important than the 15 seconds to roll and to take saves.
Rant over, but I would have sided with the IG player, the GK player knew what was going on and decided not to look. If the IG player decided to fudge a roll he would ALMOST be in the right doing it.
Personally I'd have the roll stand.
However, if the GK player -insisted- that the successful penetration roll be re-rolled, then I'd agree... as long as the unsuccessful ones were re-rolled too. :p
I make my opponent acknowledge my rolls before I move on to the next roll. I'm very patient.
While ideally the Grey Knight player should have been paying attention, and the Imperial Guard player should have made sure his rolls were witnessed by his opponent... If both players are reasonable about things the roll should stand. Especially if the die is still on the table with the roll visible - you don't need to have seen it rolled to see the result.
Yes, your opponent could be cheating and fudging rolls but if he was prepared to accept the to hit and the damage roll then he should also accept the penetration roll.
It would be stupid to have to re-roll things every time your opponent missed a roll. Ideally the Guard player should have waited until his opponent was watching, but what was he supposed to do? Reach over the table and drag the guy's attention back to what he should be watching? You can't wait forever for someone if they're not making an effort to pay attention, or if they haven't at least said something like, 'hang on a sec' before they let their attention leave the table.
I guess one way to solve it would be to leave your dice rolls as they are on the table so you can show them when their attention returns, but that still doesn't negate the issue of 'I didn't see you actually roll them.' You're effectively calling your opponent a cheat, though, and if you're that worried about it you should be watching them like a hawk the entire time, so you can bust them when they do! (Or don't, as the case may be...)
Ignoring the outright rudeness of ignoring your opponent I think most of us will acknowledge that, even if distracted by another table/player etc, we pretty much see all that's going on on our own table anyway due to peripheral vision. we can't see the specific dice results, but we see that the dice were rolled and that no-one went near them afterwards. Saying that you didn't see the roll is lame. I bet damn sure that the GK would have seen the IG player place/fiddle the dice rolls onto the table.
Last edited by krytie; September 22nd, 2011 at 15:19.
There are three types of people in this world -- those who can count, and those who cannot.
Also, as the Guard player rolled, he announced out loud what his rolls were as he was excited that he was rolling well. It was a friendly game, but the GK player has a pension for being petty. Neither player is known to lie or cheat. It was a shame that this happened. I really hate this kind of thing happening wherever it happens.