Would you ever allow this?

[andrewbeater]

I still have a problem with some of the weird things people do at games night and here's the latest one. See would you would do in this situation:
It is CSM and Space Marines (us) vs Eldar and Blood Angels (them) in a kill point game. We have 4 ruined buildings; two in each teams deployment zones. On the lower level of one of our ruins, my partner and I placed our Predators. As such, there was only a bit less than 4 inches to the table edge behind the Preds. In round three, the BA player had Dante and a retinue of Sanguinar come available from reserve. Bear in mind, Dante does not scatter when he deep strikes. The BA player places Dante behind our Preds, but when he places all the Sanguinar down around him, there isn't enough room; they are either way too close to our Preds or he is touching the table edge with one model. It should be a deep strike mishap right? His partner finds out about the mishap and picks Dante up to put him somewhere else on the board with more room. We cried foul. His argument was this: Dante doesn't scatter and therefore cannot mishap. He claims that because he doesn't scatter, he can simply put Dante in a different spot until he finds a place Dante can come down. Now I'm a Daemon player and no one would ever allow this for me. Is there ever a time when a person places his model, puts the unit around it and finds out it's a mishap, would you ever let the person relocate the unit to a safer location?

[Commisarlestat]

To me that's cheap pre measuring. If they don't do it very often then I might let it slip but if they rules lawyer then no.
As far as the scatter goes it doesn't matter whether you scatter or not if you create a mishap from placing you resolve that.

A

[pinky_si]

I'd be fine with this, but then I play in a fairly permissive local meta. That said, it's only ok with a unit which doesn't scatter while DS'ing, as once the dice have rolled that should be it. I would happily allow a Demons player to place a target model, think "nah" and pick another spot before rolling.

With us, it's the same for regular movement and reserves arriving, if people are moving in clear terrain then I'm happy for them to think and redo a couple of placements, but once they roll for difficult terrain then they're stuck with that restriction, even if they end up not choosing to move into it.

[SJPhillyVT]

I wouldn't allow it. I think the spot he picks stands once he started putting the other models in the squad around the target model and found they couldn't fit. The mishap occurs when you can't fit all the models in. Some people tunnel vision thinking the mishap only happens if the first model scattering goes awry, but it counts for the whole squad.

I'm fine with putting the first model down, eyeballing the situation, and deciding to move it somewhere else. But once that first model of the rest of the squad comes down, that's the spot.

[BarnyCarhamich]

I don't think that's appropriate, and I think you have the right understanding of the rules. If he places him against your unit or off the board edge, that's a mishap.

But I think in a friendly game, I would just relax a little bit, express your opinion, but let it slide. In my mind, I would rather not win because my opponent made a thoughtless mistake. I realize that many people would call that an inept "general" (a word that makes me cringe when people use to describe themselves playing with tiny painted soldiers), but I tend to think that "in reality," Dante, in this case, wouldn't deepstrike into a tank, or a squad wouldn't forget to shoot their guns, or an army wouldn't forget to move because someone fired a gun, etc.. Conversely, when you make a mistake, I think it's better to just take the punishment that the game metes out, so that next time you will remember.

Bottom line, barring a tournament or something, you'll never go wrong trying to make the experience fun and enjoyable.

[The Silent One]

Thats ridiculous if he can't see that there isn't enough room for them to be put down then hes quite stupid and should be made to wait a turn. If a unit can deepstrike then it can misshap.

[andrewbeater]

. I would happily allow a Demons player to place a target model, think "nah" and pick another spot before rolling.

Daemon player CAN pick any place before the scatter roll!

[andrewbeater]

I'm fine with putting the first model down, eyeballing the situation, and deciding to move it somewhere else. But once that first model of the rest of the squad comes down, that's the spot.

Right! I agree whole heartily!

[Captain Corrigan]

I agree with Thescilentone on this one. If your opponent can't tell that there isn't any room for them to be placed in, they should be penalised. After all, I'm sure that if the logic-systems in Dante's thunderhawk failed to detect that there wasn't enough room, then Dante wouldn't just reappear elsewhere - he'd continue and suffer the consequences because he can't do anything about it.

That said, I wouldn't too harsh on something like that - if the opponent has been alright throughout the game other than that then I'd just express your doubts regarding the legality of the move.

Overall, my point (and I do have one) is that I would not allow it as such, but neither would I all-guns-blazing disallow it.

-Corrigan

[andrewbeater]

Then we really should discuss the limits of a "friendly" game. It has come up that some would allow it in a friendly game, but how much do you put up with in a friendly game. For me, things I let people away with are things like if a models base is just on the edge of a template, I give them the hit. I forgive a Guard player who forgets to do his orders at the proper time. I'll forgive someone who forgot to run in the shooting phase when it is now the assault phase. Things of those nature. But a deep strike mishap? It's like a guy declaring to shoot a tank, measuring to the tank, finding it's out of range and then picking another closer target. Point is, when a judgement call is made and it fails, I don't allow you to change your mind. A lot of people believe you cannot mishap using Icons of Teleporting Beacons. Not true, it just allows you not to scatter. If you place your model in a dangerous position to begin with, it's your fault if you mishap. Also, you must place your first model within 6" of the Icon. After that you must measure the distance. If you didn't put your model within 6" due to poor judgement, your model scatters as normal. As a Daemon player I can tell you people froth at the mouth for a deep strike mishap against my Daemons. The people I play with for the most part are zealots when it comes to mishaps. Measuring to the last millimeter to see if they can call me on a mishap in the chance it destroys your unit. I've had some people, after discussing all terrain at the beginning of the game, try to tell me I landed in impassable terrain when I landed in declared difficult terrain in hopes of a mishap. I really believe you treat people the way they treated you first.