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Does YOUR list fit in?
I am curious to see how different peoples armies fit into this army list building development system that my Dad created. He used to spend more time making lists than actually playing... literally, it would take 3 days for him to make a 1500pt list. Anyway; how does this work?
Divide total point value of army by 9. So for example in an 1850pt list you have nine 205 pt "sections" and a 5pt floater.
First Place 4 "sections" (820pts) into troops.
Then 1 "section" (205pts) in each of your Heavy, Fast, Elites and HQ sections.
This leaves 1 "section" that you may do what ever you want with. For example an Imperial Guard army might put it into Heavy Support.
IMPORTANT: This is a general guideline, not a strict rubric. It is aimed at balancing the list to deal with as much as possible while keeping it effective and spam-free.
Now, I had no idea what this was until finally my dad explained the system. Then I went and counted out my competitive DE army into it and found that I was almost spot on! I was very successful with the list that fit in to the "law" and have had trouble moving away from it ever since. I find it is a nice tool to keep things interesting while keeping focused on what matters, good number of troops, some fast units, fire support and elite units. Of course keeping the HQ cheap so as to not sink too many pts into it.
Anyway. I challenge all of you to try it out! And let me know what you think.
I don't get it. Can you give a more in-depth example? I'm curious
Step 2: Divide these 9 parts of 166 over the Force Organization Chart. Put 4 parts of 166 into Troops, 1 part in HQ, 1 part in Elite, 1 part in Fast Attack and 1 part in Heavy Support.
Step 3: You now have assigned 8 parts to every single section. The 9nd part, you can assign however you see fit.
Lets take a 1000 points list for Chaos Space Marines. 1000 points / 9 = 111,1. Rounded down, this gives me 111 points per part, with 1 point to spare (111 x 9 = 999).
4 of these parts go into Troops, meaning I have 4 x 111 = 444 points I'm going to invest in Troops choices.
CSM squad 145 points
- 8 Marines, Icon of Chaos Undivided, Plasma gun
CSM squad 140 points
- 8 Marines, Icon of Chaos Undivided, Melta gun
CSM squad 160 points
- 9 Marines, Icon of Chaos Undivided, Plasma pistol
This totals 445 points. 1 point too much, but I had 1 point to spare, so I'm going to use that here.
Then, on to the other four sections to spend 111 points on.
Daemon Prince 110 points
Chosen Chaos Space Marines 110 points
- 5 Chosen, Icon of Chaos Undivided, 2 Flamers
Raptor squad 110 points
- 5 Raptors, Icon of Chaos Undivided
Predator 110 points
- Twin-linked autocannon, sponson Heavy bolters, Dozerblade, Combi-bolter
I now have spend points according to the part-amount on all sections. In some cases, I wasn't able to spend the full 111 points, so I now have 4 points left, together with the last, 9nd part of 111 points.
This gives me 115 points to spend on whatever I want/like.
I go for another Predator at 115 points:
- Twin-linked autocannon, sponson Heavy bolters, Dozerblade, Combi-melta
Hope this helps in you understanding the original post.
Innovation suffuses this hobby like a tea bag in the boiling water of play.
HQ 210 of 205
Jacobus, Rhino, hunter killer, 5 cultists
ELITE 200 of 205
6 Celestines, 2 meltas, power weapon, melta immolator
FAST 205 of 205
10 Dominions, 4 meltas, rhino
TROOPS 800 of 820
4x 10 sisters, 2 meltas, combi-plasma, rhino, hunter killer
HEAVY 435 of 205+205
3 exorcists, hunter killers
HQ is under-staffed, elite is bunk, fast is inefficient, troops are bloated, heavy support is ok... :p
I've seen similar kinds of restrictions in tournaments - they just don't work for older/lower tier armies because they are inherently unbalanced by large swathes of suck through their codex - sisters for instance have very poor elites and mediocre troops, and simply not enough options to efficiently squeeze units into arbitrary points brackets.
Last edited by A.T.; December 7th, 2011 at 10:53. Reason: corrected math
Never even heard of that.
For my own lists, I tend to be missing one slot. In my current wolves list, I don't have anything in Fast Attack, for example. Granted, I go by pretty fluffy builds, so I think that has a lot to do with it. But basically, if you're looking for competitive builds, spamming is fundamental to that (or redundancy, if you want a positive word for it).
Thank you all for actually participating rather than directly bashing the thread from reply 1... (dang you Dakka and Wseer) Anyhow, yes the gist is there. I am well aware that some armies rely on one FOslot more than others, or that some are just not taken because of the lack of "competitive" choices. Hence this is just a guideline, when I have more time today I shall post up some of my own lists. If your list does not fit, what would you do to make it fit better? Like taking that fast attack slot that you never used to. For example, in my 1500pt word bearer army I would run a unit of chaos bikers with melta to run some FA, not common, but awesome, I came to like the unit.
That having been said there are only 5 units in the codex once you remove the HQs, transports, rage-afflicted and compulsory choices so it's probably not the best to set a benchmark with.
Some armies can pull off arbitrary FoC limit shenanigans - Blood Angels for instance could take three different units from each and every slot and be pretty happy with the results.
Personally though I either build a list around unit capability or around a theme - how much I spend in each slot means little to me.
I don't think I've followed this rule ever with any of my builds. That being said, I do make sure most of the targets in my army are around the same point cost and efficiency so it's hard for my opponent to choose what target is a priority. So this restriction fits within my own list building theme but not necessarily the other way around.
Wouldn't work for tau. We need to minimize the amount we spend on troops in order to be viable. Ie in 4 troop choices I look at spending 320 2 minimum fire warrior squads + 2 100 point kroot.
It seems like a neat way to throw together a list quickly, especially if you're the type (like me) who tends to overthink it.
I play Orks, so for a balanced 1500 list I'd probably run this as my troops:
30 Shoota boyz w/3 rokkits, nob, bosspole, powerklaw 
16 Grots w/runtherder 
19 Shoota boyz w/1 big shootas, nob, bosspole, powerklaw 
12 Slugga Ard Boyz w/nob, powerklaw, bosspole, trukk, ram, wrecking ball 
For the other slots I really need some solid vehicle killing, and a little more template shooting, so I'm going to go with:
2 Deffkoptas w/rokkits, 1 buzzsaw 
1 Warbuggy with Skorcha, wartrakks 
6 Lootas 
6 Lootas 
3 Big Gunz Kannons w/2 ammo runts, 3 extra krew 
3 Big Gunz Kannons w/2 ammo runts, 3 extra krew 
Now for the HQ let's go with:
Big Mek w/KFF 
Big Mek w/SAG, ammo runt 
This leaves me with 148 points, which I will spend on a Battlewagon for the 19 shoota boyz + KFF Mek:
Battlewagon w/kannon, armor plates, deffrolla, grot riggers, wrecking ball 
Altogether, we have a pretty balanced list. The large unit of shoota boyz + grots hold objectives, while the lootas, big gunz, and SAG provide fire support, and the Battlewagon, Deffkoptas, Trukk of Ard Slugga boyz, and warbuggy move towards the enemy in a group, protected by the KFF, to try to overrun either an objective or their firebase.
All in all, I wouldn't adjust an existing list with the method, but it's a nice way to put a balanced list together.
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."