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Hi. I need some help. I've started to play a pure DH list and am about to make a 1000pnt list. Here's what I've got:
GK GM + 4 Term retinue
7 GK's + Just
7 GK's + Just
LR + Smoke + extra armor
For 1000 points that is so limited compared to my space marine lists. Where's the heavy weapons in the troops squads? :huh:
Anyway, something else I need help on is how can I get some GK HW's? I can't have them on the Dread, it attracts too much anti-tank fire for it to last more than 2 turns. :realmad:
You made the biggest mistake in a small GK force. You took the two most expensive things on the menu: a Land Raider and a GM. Together. In a 1000pts game. I wouldn't use either of them by themselves in a game this small.
Drop the entire HQ. The unit you have now is equivalent to about 14 GK in power armor. That's why your model count is so low. A GM isn't intended for games of this size, and neither are terminators. Instead, buy a Brother-Captain without retinue & have him march with a Troop squad of GK. You can actually buy that Troops squad entirely from the cost of the previous HQ, and have points leftover.
Your Troops section is fine. I'd suggest maybe putting a psycannon or two in here somewhere (1x or 2x in one unit, not 1x in each - concentrate firepower by splitting roles) just for variety and some S6 shots.
Drop the LR (and no, don't take a LRC either). Too expensive for a 1000pts list, especially since a single lascannon can blow it up in one turn. That would be a quarter of your entire army right there, not to mention a risk for whoever was riding it (probably the 300pt+ HQ, yes?).
With the points saved, buy more GK. People need to understand the ferocity of the standard GK trooper: S6, true grit, stormbolter, shrouding, power armor. One squad of these has twice the firepower of a SM squad, and twice the combat power as well. You could fit more than twice as many GK in this list as you already have, easily.
If you want heavy weapons for pure GK, you don't have a lot of choices. In fact, you have LR's, Dreadnoughts, and Purgation squads. I like Purgation squads, not everyone does though. I think you'd benefit from having one of them in this army - it doesn't have to have four psycannons if you can't afford it, two or three is still handy. Frees up your other GK for marching ahead and not worrying about keeping the 36" range if you seperate all your psycannons into a Purgation squad. Dreadnoughts are the other real choice - they aren't very expensive, and if used right, can last a long time. For an army like this, which advances as a whole, I'd take a Dread with a CCW arm, since it'd be safer to keep him with the other units for support. TLLC/CCW is a fierce combo, as is assault cannon or plasma cannon with CCW. My favorite is a multi-melta/CCW/incinerator, very "burn the heretics". If you give it extra armor & smoke (maybe even Blessed), and don't leave it out in the open for the enemy to pop, it'll make it's points back easy. Land Raiders (and Crusaders) are just too expensive in an already expensive army. It's fine to use one at 2000pts or so, but in a game this small, don't put all your eggs (or terminators) in one basket.
You haven't addressed about how the Dread with TLLC and CCW would stay alive long, leave alone kill enemy tanks. If it's on the open, it's tank hunting season on the Dread with every anti tank weapon out there. I know this is where someone will say "hide it behind a building". But if it's hiding then it's not shooting and also it's not getting closer to combat where it should be. Yeah, smoke and armor is good. I usually take it on all my marine vehicles.
I know the GK GM is a little expensive in only a 1000 pt game, but there is no one else who is In5. As soon as some lowly Chaplin from some backwater marine army comes along a BC is toast!
And I need the LR. It delivers the GK Terms to the assault quickly as well as provide anti-tank. If I leave the GK's to hoof it, then they will be shot to pieces by anything AP3/2. Lascannons, Missle launchers, Plasma cannons/ guns/ pistols.
Well, I can't tell you EXACTLY how to keep a unit alive. That takes playing around with what works and anticipating your foe. But in general, don't leave him out in the open. And no, that isn't a "stick him behind a building" comment. Don't put him in LoS with multiple tank-hunting units in order to get off a shot at one tank. Maneuver, use terrain and LoS to get firing lanes that don't leave him vulnerable. Smoke is good for the inevitable mistake (which I still make too, I'm not saying I'm perfect). Extra armor helps in case you make that mistake but the enemy doesn't destroy it. Blessed is good against certain armies as well (now if only we could buy Shrouding for them...). Also, the weapons you give it matter. If all it's doing is tank hunting with a TLLC, then give it a ML instead of a DCCW - the range improves chances of useful terrain and whatnot, and he's more likely to kill that tank on the first go (instead of missing and having to withstand the tank's response). I like the MM/DCCW/Incin combo so that I can advance my Dread with my army. I know, he doesn't get screened, but it works. The enemy sees the entire army moving as one (or nearly as one), and feels threatened. Leaving the Dread along makes him look vulnerable (and he is that way) and many players will capitalise on any unit left alone.You haven't addressed about how the Dread with TLLC and CCW would stay alive long, leave alone kill enemy tanks. If it's on the open, it's tank hunting season on the Dread with every anti tank weapon out there. I know this is where someone will say "hide it behind a building". But if it's hiding then it's not shooting and also it's not getting closer to combat where it should be. Yeah, smoke and armor is good. I usually take it on all my marine vehicles.How many multi-wound models do you expect to face in 1000pts? That's where the GM really shines. Yea, he can take out a Chappie, but I5 is far from the fastest on the field. Don't take him solely because he can outfight a mid-level HQ of one army. I'd say, in 1000pts, the only army worth taking a GM against is a multi-TMC Tyranids force. Also, remember the cost. A GM is almost the cost of 6 PAGK. That's a whole extra squad. Or you could buy a Dreadnought. Or a squad of IST with anti-armor weaponry. All of which are equally effective at killing a single model. Numbers are infinitely more important than uber characters in 40K.I know the GK GM is a little expensive in only a 1000 pt game, but there is no one else who is In5. As soon as some lowly Chaplin from some backwater marine army comes along a BC is toast!GKT can deepstrike, if you really feel the need to use them. But like I said in my first post, using a terminator squad in 1000pts is just as big a faux pas as using a LR©. If you just take a BC and drop the LR and Terminators, you can afford a Dread and many more PAGK/FAGK. Hell, if you must have the terminators, put TP Homers on some justicars. But as for the LR: once again, 1/4th of your points on one model, which can be killed by as little as a 10pt meltagun. Not smart. And you want to put the HQ in there. That's well over half your points in one neat little package. You're worried about the survivability of a Dreadnought? What about your mobile bullseye here? A lascannon can pop a LR almost as easily as it can a Dreadnought. And then you've got the nasty saves to take and whatnot. And then? Any surviving models are stuck in the middle of the battlefield, unsupported by the rest of your army, as easy pickings for the enemy. Remember: you have two 6" and one 12" unit in your current setup. Is your HQ supposed to survive the trip over when the enemy has nothing else to gun for?And I need the LR. It delivers the GK Terms to the assault quickly as well as provide anti-tank. If I leave the GK's to hoof it, then they will be shot to pieces by anything AP3/2. Lascannons, Missle launchers, Plasma cannons/ guns/ pistols.
As for I5...some Librarians can get up to I8. Canonesses are quite capable of getting up to S5 I7 at a mere 100 points. Any SW player at 1000 points will have at LEAST one I5 character. Dark Eldar Incubi? Eldar Banshees? Don't even talk to me about those. Fact is, I5 is not all you make it out to be.
There probably won't be that many multiwound HQ's out there in 1000 pts, at least none that can survive a bunch of St6 power weapon attacks from some GK Terms and a BC. It's just that an enemy power weapon would chew through my Terms and it's a huge points loss if they can. I know that combat is there they should be, but when the enemy could possibly beat me In wise and kill my precious expensive Terms? And about higher than In5, yes, they do exist (like my Chaplin with Furious Charge in my Crimson Fists), but I also think that if you are at In5 then you are equal to most HQ's around.
I'll give the Dread some more thought. Perhaps I'll get 2 with TLLC and CCW. It'll cost less than a LR and with the same firepower. It's just the main thrust of the last list was the LR would charge it's full 12' launch smoke, pray it doesn't die, then lunge foward again and unload it's HQ onto the enemy. The PAGK's would trail behind the path of the LR and get into any squads the HQ misses. Once the HQ have gotten out of the LR then it would be free to fire on anything that moves. I'm guessing that it would then be close enough to the enemy/ have good line of sight.
You DO know that most HQs have more than one wound, right?
i for one have three support squads of
1x8 men purgs with 4 phycannons (325)
then i max out my troops with 2x10 knights (550)
brother captain with gear (125)
disonour before death
Sorry, I worded that poorly. I meant to say more wounds that what a bunch of GK Terms could dish out. Even after Inv saves.Originally posted by Squirrel@Dec 9 2004, 17:25
You DO know that most HQs have more than one wound, right?[snapback]270018[/snapback]