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Chaos Lord - 177
MoCU, BP, Dark Blade, frags, icon, spiky bits, d aura, d essence, d flight, d mutation
1 obliterator - 70
3 X 7 CSM - 233
MoCU, 5 BP and CCW, 1 flamer, 1 asp champ with pfist, d mutation, spiky bits
Rhino with smoke, extra armor, searchlight
2 X 6 furies - 90 each
6 raptors - 233
MoCU, 4 BP and CCW, 1 flamer, 1 Asp Champ with pfist, d mutation, spiky bits
2 X Havocs - 156 each
2 BP and CCW, 4 Missile Launchers, MoCU, Stealth Adepts
Defiler - 180
It's essentially a powerfist rush with a lot of big guns to act as fire magnets. Is three rhinos too small? Can they get there intact? Can I find enough terrain to deploy all this stuff safely?
looks good, one thing I would highly suggest is furious charge on your normal marines, it adds 7 attacks each, and strikes first most of the time. But that's just my .02, take it or leave it.
Mad Props to Angel_of_Rust for the sig.
Furious charge does not give an additional attack. It adds strength and initiative, not attacks.
grr, that is tru, .......must........read......codex.....going.....cold....turkey.... well, I still strongly suggest it, attacking first is always one of my favorites.
Mad Props to Angel_of_Rust for the sig.
thats not a nightlordish army, too much heavy support
I'd like to know what makes heavy support "not a nightlordish army." Do you have some reference that says Night Lords are supposed to exclusively use raptors, furies, and rhinos? No, you don't, and that's because you're making it up.
Sure, Night Lords are supposed to have speed. Night Lords are supposed to have aggressive patrolling. But that's hardly all they're limited to.
I direct you to pages 74-75 of your CSM Codex. Here, you'll see four legions, each depicted in their element. Word Bearers have Daemons in the background, Iron Warriors have a tank and a Dreadnought, and Alpha Legion is infiltrating an enemy city. Now, what do we see for Night Lords? A squad, hiding in cover, WITH A HEAVY WEAPON.
All Night Lord units get Night Vision for free. Night Lords have exclusive rights to the Stealth Adepts veteran skill. Now, if you could please tell me how either of these skills would help anyone besides heavy weapon toting marines, I'd like to hear it. You tell me how my raptors, with a max range of 24 inches (and that's only if they stay stationary, which a Night Lord would never do! could benefit from night vision, and I'll drop my havocs. You tell me how an assault-geared squad, protected by a rhino from enemy shooting, can benefit from Stealth Adepts, and I'll drop my havocs. Well? I thought not.
The fact of the matter is, stealth and deception is every bit as important to Night Lords as speed is, if not more so. If anything, Alpha Legion is the mobile army, getting to the enemy fast, while Night Lords lurk in the shadows, waiting for their chance. Havocs are perfectly acceptable, no, PERFECT in this role. If you have a bone with the defiler, fine, but then again everyone has a bone with any defiler in any army, so I can live with that.
In short, I don't much appreciate people telling me what I can and cannot do with my army, but I can usualy ignore them. But, when self-righteous bitches like you come around and fabricate fluff that doesn't exist and reprimand me for not following it, I get a little *****ed. So, please, if you have something constructive to contribute to the list, go ahead. But don't preach your personally invented fluff.
That response was both correct, but a bit harshThis is fluff. Night Lords have night vision because they were based on a planet that was completely covered by darkness. Go ahead and say that I made that up. This is no reason for not having havocs, but nothing says that they should be called "PERFECT"ly in line with Night Lord practices. And citing a picture, of all things, is not the best arguement to make.Still, nothing wrong with havocs, and the list is pretty good.All Night Lord units get Night Vision for free. Night Lords have exclusive rights to the Stealth Adepts veteran skill. Now, if you could please tell me how either of these skills would help anyone besides heavy weapon toting marines, I'd like to hear it. You tell me how my raptors, with a max range of 24 inches (and that's only if they stay stationary, which a Night Lord would never do! could benefit from night vision, and I'll drop my havocs.
God help you though if you face an army that can take down some rhinos fast, like tau. If your grunts are forced to foot slog it out, you then you better count on getting those furies out early and without terrible scatter, otherwise you'd be in a harder situation than you'd like to be. Should preform well though.
First of all, thanks for the list criticism about the anti-rhino firepower. Hopefully, against Tau, the havocs and defiler should be able to dispatch a Broadside fort rather quickly, as condensed Fire Warriors don't like blast templates, especially not AP3 ones. The raptors and lord can advance under cover. The only viable targets left, then, are the rhinos and the shooters. Quite frankly, I'd prefer the railgun shots to go to the Rhinos, as that would mean I can still summon furies (with their 18 inch charge to compensate for bad scatters) from the Lord and raptors, AND shoot their firebase into oblivion. Hopefully .
As to the fluff debate, I'd say I was harsh, and I apologize, but it was called for. I can't stand people criticizing fluff out of ignorance.
Also, I don't quite understand your argument that units can be given skills and abilities solely for fluff, with out any real gaming application. If I were to follow things in the Night Lords description that is there "only for fluff," then I would only play with a 500 point handicap, because Night Lords pick on weaker foes, and I would have to somehow make their models move in the wrong directions, because Night Lords cut communication lines. And, this whole debate is moot, because of course Night Lords "ruthlessly use their innate abilities [like Night Vision, innate because of their origin on a dark planet] to give themselves an advantage over their enemies."
Yeah, the fluff fight is pointless, and just a difference of opinion.
But about the tau, I didn't mean the broadsides (which would be drawn to the defiler like a fat man towards a crispy cream shop), I was commenting on how everything in their army can take out rhinos, even their standard 5 strenth fire warriors. 30-60 shots could do some damage to rhinos, but hopefull, as they will all be glances, you won't bet too unlucky. Necrons too, with their auto glances. You'd need some nice cover to stop any damage from hitting your rhino's. But again, those could be all "Crewed shaken" and not mean a thing. But then again, you could roll three 6's on the glancing chart. Just throwing out some thoughts.
I never said you had to play by the rules of fluff, in fact I dont usually because most of the time the "fluff" calls for an unbalanced army in which some cases is immensly powerful, and i other cases horribly weak.
About the havocs, i never said anything about any one unit of heavy support, i just said that it seemed there was a bit too much heavy support to fit a night lordish army, i never said that they had to be all fast attack and have no fire support, because that alot of times is the definition of unbalenced.
[/QUOTE]I direct you to pages 74-75 of your CSM Codex. Here, you'll see four legions, each depicted in their element. Word Bearers have Daemons in the background, Iron Warriors have a tank and a Dreadnought, and Alpha Legion is infiltrating an enemy city. Now, what do we see for Night Lords? A squad, hiding in cover, WITH A HEAVY WEAPON
and about that? that is just a basic marine squad, yes, it has a heavy weapon, big deal thats what you're basic squads are there for, to be flexible. They can carry fire support, or close combat. And that doesnt go against the fluff either because it never says anything about troops not using heavy weapons. It does however state that the night lord make exstensive use of raptors and bikes, which is an advantage for night lords. Though it never states anything against heavy support it does give you thee option not to use 2 heavy support slots and get a 4th fast attack(could this be a bit of a hint?)
I honestly don't know why you got so *****ed off, if I offended you I opologize .I just said it didnt really fit the fluff, but then again thats in my eyes. I never said he had to play by the fluff or he had to use all 4 fast attacks that he can have. I just said that there seemed to be a few to many heavy support choices to fit the fluff(then again thats in my eyes). hey if he wanted to he could use no fast attack at all, thats his choice, not mine or you're's.