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  1. #1
    Member trub's Avatar
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    Fluffmaster advice needed!!!!

    Hey guys, can you's point to where i can find internet-based info on the 13th(dark) founding??

    Also, how would i discreetly go about bringing in that my chapter possibly has Night Lord gene-seed?

    Thanks in advance, Trub.


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  3. #2
    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trub View Post
    Hey guys, can you's point to where i can find internet-based info on the 13th(dark) founding??
    Wikipedia's always nice, although you could browse torrent sites to download the PDF of the Index Astartes article on them.

    Isn't the 13th the Cursed Founding? And the 21st was the Dark Founding? Ehh. Wikipedia will salve your ills.

    Also, how would i discreetly go about bringing in that my chapter possibly has Night Lord gene-seed?
    With great difficulty.

    Seriously, though, I'd just leave that up to subtleties and interpretation, like how the Blood Ravens have done so with their ancestry (possible Thousand Sons.)
    The above poster = Totally a member of the Fluff Masters Clan. Click here for fluff pwnage.

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  4. #3
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    There's a bit of cursed founding stuff on the GW website last time I checked.. The dark founding has never really been explored much..

    Seriously, though, I'd just leave that up to subtleties and interpretation, like how the Blood Ravens have done so with their ancestry (possible Thousand Sons.)
    Yeah.. In fact, I've yet to be convinced there's any evidence linking them to the sons in particular. Though there's some clear suggestions something is wrong with their origin.

    Okay, they have a lot of librarians, but those librarians were psykers from long before they had the geneseed inserted..

    So yeah.. Inspecific suggestions, yes yes.. Blatant statements of fact, no no.. As the literary rule goes: show, don't tell.. It's more exciting that way.

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    Please excuse me while I ramble off-topic on the Blood Ravens.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis View Post
    Yeah.. In fact, I've yet to be convinced there's any evidence linking them to the sons in particular. Though there's some clear suggestions something is wrong with their origin.
    Actually, thereís some rather substantial evidence of the Blood Ravens being linked in some fashion to the Thousand Sons found in the Dawn of War books; Ahriman of the Thousand Sons had close connections to Vidya, the Founding Father of the Blood Ravens Chapter and writer of the Apocrypha of the Unfounding, the ancient text the Chapter revere as their holy script, a copy of which as well as the Unfounding itself were once found in Ahrimanís personal library.

    Furthermore, the Blood Ravens are all scholars and psykers like the Thousand Sons, their Librarians wear blue armour (in honour of the Thousand Sons, one might suspect) just as the rank and file wear the pre-Heresy colours of the Thousand Sons (not coincidentally, according to Ahriman), and the Chapter possess a psychic device (the Beacon Psykana) so immensely powerful itís only exceeded by the Astronomican itself, built by their enigmatic Founder and kept secret from the rest of the Imperium. The Chapter is also suffering from an increased risk of falling to the temptations of power and knowledge, turning from the Emperorís light to Tzeentch. Finally, Ahriman himself often hints and at one point almost outright declares that the Blood Ravens are descendants of the Thousand Sons.

    I donít think the Chapter itself is aware of this apparent connection, though some of the higher-ranking Librarians definitely suspect it; however, as a whole the Chapter is loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium in spite of their origins being lost in the Dark Founding (which is rumoured to have used Traitor Geneseed anyway, making a link between the Blood Ravens and the Thousand Sons even more likely.)

    Personally, I play Blood Ravens as loyalists Ė for now; when the new Chaos Codex comes out, Iím planning to make me a Traitor Blood Raven army as well. :w00t:

    ~Greph.
    "Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.


  6. #5
    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mistress
    like the Thousand Sons, their Librarians wear blue armour (in honour of the Thousand Sons, one might suspect)
    Actually, all Librarians wear blue armour, according to Dawn of War and a number of conservative paint schemes. Just like all Apothecaries wear white and all Chaplains wear black.
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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ze_poodle View Post
    Actually, all Librarians wear blue armour, according to Dawn of War and a number of conservative paint schemes. Just like all Apothecaries wear white and all Chaplains wear black.
    Ah yes, youíre right of course. Iíve just gotten so used to seeing Librarians of other colours that it slipped my mind for a second, likely because others also tend to forget that all Librarians wear blue. Not to mention that Ahriman made quite a fuss about it himself in the books, which was why it appeared to be of special importance. Maybe Librarians werenít blue pre-Heresy and Ahriman didnít know better than to think his Legion was the influence of the colour choice. *Shrugs.*

    In any case, I stand corrected. Well done.

    ~Greph.
    "Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.


  8. #7
    Always Fabulous NiteRabbit's Avatar
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    In any case, the Blood Ravens' colour scheme resembles that of the Thousand Sons before the Horus Heresy to a remarkable degree. When combined with their mission statement about protecting fonts of hidden knowledge, their maxim that knowledge is power (a belief first espoused by one Magnus the Red), and their ability to accomplish victories through guile and deceit, one begins to wonder. Not to mention the fact that their past has been conveniently erased after a certain point in history.

    Now, to answer your question, the Dark Founding is called that for the precise reason that no one knows much about it, therefore you won't find much information out. This makes it an ideal ground in which to plant the seeds of mistrust and implication. For instance, the skin colour of your Marines could be incredibly pale, and they might have a mournful or haunting look about them. This would seem to imply that they are a Raven Guard successor, until you consider the fact that they strike like the storm and use any means necessary to achieve their ends, including the sacrifice of entire Imperial populations (kept hidden, of course, by the intimidation and occasional field execution of dissenting officers). It might not occur to them to use anything less than total force to achieve their objectives. They might not know any other way of fighting.

    Others might cite their use of rapid attacks from multiple fronts, a hallmark of both Legions, or the fact that dual motifs of the skull and the raven appear frequently in Chapter lore. Who knows? Why, it's the Dark Founding, silly. Of course no one knows!

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