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  1. #1
    Dusk Phantom Adahn's Avatar
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    Eldar & Tau - A Question

    Yes yes Adahn is back and here to stay ^_^ Well, I haven't been on because believe it or not I'm moving from my home (Italy) to Texas (oh well) for work. So yeah, I might still not be on for a bit due to me not having internet set up but enough about me, on with the question:

    --

    The Tau and the Eldar. Two alien races, one extremely ancient and powerful one who went through their little apocalypse and are now reduced to floating-craftworld-refugee-bums who are still arrogant enough to call the Imperium chimps AND the other, a "new" race of aliens who have advanced technologically faster than even humans have.

    One interesting thing I've noticed from Dark Crusade is that they don't seem to be all that 'hostile' towards one another. As in, their wars seem to be "buisness" and not "personal". Surely the Eldar consider the Tau children, but I've noticed that relationships between them might acctually be much more relaxed and understanding than with their 'Human' counterparts.

    Thoughts?


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  3. #2
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Maybe.. But since we're playing dark crusade try beating the Tau with the Eldar. The description of what happens afterwards is the most brilliantly callous example of Eldar contempt for other races.

    In short, Eldar don't really seem to care about anyone, and Tau are fanatically commited to an ideology which places themselves at the centre of the universe. I think there's enough mutual arrogance on that negotiation table to write off any possibility of long term cooperation..

    Short term cooperation might be possible, but pretty much depends on the Tau being all young and naive.. Humanity learned not to trust the Eldar through experience, and in time the Tau will too.

  4. #3
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    The eldar's apparently lack of hostile disdain for the tau is more indicative of the fact they don't respect their capabilities.

    Allow me to explain.

    The eldar know the Imperium is dangerous, they also know the mon keigh have sufficient intelligence to get past their defenses and release/look at/eat things they really shouldn't. They also know the Imperium isn't easilly swayed by their poisoned attempts at diplomacy meaning they have to put their blood and wraithstone on the line frequently in dealing with them.

    Ergo, they really, really, dislike the mon-keigh.

    The tau are naive, the tau are driven by clear ideals that make them open to diplomacy and giving chances to the eldar, they also have little to no psychic potential meaning they aren't liable to become possessed by some slaaneshi demon, and their history holds no record of super-beings squatting in the Eye of Terror. The eldar likely view the tau the way they view the orks, dangerous yes, but infinitely effective as a cat's paw. And so they treat them with the patronizing sweentess one might show to a dog...

    ...until they can find a big enough rock.

  5. #4
    Dusk Phantom Adahn's Avatar
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    Well that makes sense I suppose, especially since the Eldar really are that arrogant. What hit me though was the fact that the Eldar seem to be able to communicate with nearly everyone with their own language contrary to the Dark Eldar.

    I mean I just finished reading Brothers of the Snake and the DE only seem to repeat whatever their pray say in order to mock them. Whilst in Dark Crusade, Farseer Taldeer seems to be able to speak the Tau's language, as well as High Gothic. Then again the game might just have made it so that everyone speaks English >.>

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  6. #5
    Senior Member AlbinoAlien's Avatar
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    Yeah. In alot of the novels, The Eldar have to have a previous knowledge of Humanities language to speak it. They just put that in Dark Crusade so as not to confuse the dialouge. PLus, most super high ranking officials, such as the commanders of each race in the game, tend to learn different languages anyhow, as thier job dicatates they might have to use it.
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    It is believable that the Tau and the Eldar have co-operated with each other within the past, although anything more than short is unlikely, Tau are brain-washed in the Ideologies of the Greater Good and they are attempting to bring this ideology to the entire universe and every race, save the Tyranids and Orks which they have concluded these two races are beyond taking up their ideals. Meanwhile the Eldar only wish to concern themselves with their own preservation and history, as you can see through this that the two races ideals do not go very well together.

    It is likely that once that the Tau and Eldar have worked together, but the Tau have tried to convert the Eldar into believing in the Greater Good and convert them to their cause which naturally didn't go down very well for the Eldar. As for Dark Crusade, they did break a few rules, such as Necrons do not speak at all but they have somehow decided to break the barrier with a talking Pariah, only the C'tan talk really, and the only C'tan who knows how to communicate with beings other than Necrons at the current moment is the Deceiver, Necrons no longer have a personality behind their bodies, they are only shells of former life that are used by the C'tan to form up their devious plots.. Basically.. THQ had to break some rules when they made the games, although they tried their best to keep to ideals of 40k..
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  8. #7
    Member Governor-Militant Vespa's Avatar
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    Another possible fact that the Eldar might not consider the Tau as viable threats in because of their non-existence in the Warp. Because of the fact the Tau's essence is barely registered within the Immaterium, it also means that they cannot be consumed by the Ruinous Powers like the other races, much like the Humans and the Eldar alike. AN example comes from Dark Crusade. When assaulting the Word Bearer fortress, Eliphas tries to subdue Shas'O Kais mentally, but the Tau commander only hears static and switches comm-lines, thinking it was a glitch. The only species that could theoretically be infected by the taint of Chaos within the Tau Empire are the kroot, for their habit of consuming the flesh of the fallen (but I digress here, lol).

    Eldar constantly strive to walk their paths and avoid the taint of Chaos by suppressing their impulses and basic instincts. Because of this, they try to wrestle with the fact some of their brethren can easily be swayed and lose their souls to She Who Thirsts. The Dark Eldar and Chaos Space Marines are by comparison the greatest enemies of the Eldar race, because they have been touched by the warp and serve its dark masters. Linking the Chaos Space Marines to Humanity, they also are wary of the Imperium, for their forces, as devoted to the Emperor they can be, still can be corrupted by the Ruinous Powers. Mix this with the uncanny ability of the Mon-Keigh to stir up trouble and come up with big guns of their own, and you have a few ticked off Eldar.

    The Tau may have heavy firepower themselves, but they are loathe to use it unless in dire need. Never will you see a Tau force burn entire planets in the name of the Greater Good like the Imperium does (and frequently enough lol). True, they might be brainwashed lunatics serving priests in white robes with a slit in their foreheads, but... that at least makes them into a "peace through power" race.

    These points, methinks, are what make the Eldar less worried about a Tau incursion. Their relations are nowhere near friendly, but open war between both empires would also be a strange event. Nonetheless, if push came to shove and the Ruinous Powers struck in unison with more of the galaxy's enemies (Dark Eldar, Orks, Tyranids... hey who knows? lol), Eldar and Tau might forge some kind of bond, and might even consider working with the Imperium (xeno-hatred replaced by a culling of heretics, however risky that might be, some Inquisitors might requisition "samples" from their gracious allies).
    What do Khorne Berzerkers say to Necrons after chopping some of their bits off? "BLOOD FOR... Eh? Come on! You just take the fun out of it... Scream! Yell! Awww... not even a trace of guts..." *sniffles and kicks dirt*

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  9. #8
    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    I really, really, doubt the Eldar look at the Tau with any greater sympathy than they look at humans. That's sort of a naive assumption, to think that because they're both aliens they'll work together - forgetting that to them, everyone else is an alien.

    Eldar don't like humans because they are warlike, uncultured, unsympathetic, and primitive - which are pretty much the reasons why humans don't like Orks. They are probably going to think Tau are less warlike, uncultured, unsympathetic and primitive than humans, but I don't think they'll be opening the Webway for them anytime soon. For one, the Tau are all blunts and the Eldar regard refined psychic power as the height of their achievements. It's like, okay. The Romans have figured out concrete, archways and highways. They're master architects. Along comes a German barbarian and try as they might, they just can't get it through to him that piling a rock onto two other rocks makes a construction of rocks. Imagine that he's just incapable of getting that seemingly simple thought into his head. Imagine how stupid the Romans would think he is, because he can't figured out stuff that they figured out so easily.

    The Tau are nice, though, whereas humans are stupid and mean on the whole, so Eldar are probably more likely to be diplomatic, since the Tau have figured out things like clean energy and respect for the environment that the Imperium hasn't gotten after about thirty-eight thousand years. Tau aren't going to invade your maiden worlds and desecrate the Aspect shrines to replace them with big signs saying "O'Shovah was here, and he totally pwned j00z." So maybe their relationship is more cordial, seeing as the Tau are nice enough to get the friendship and alliance of a whole bunch of races, and the Eldar may be the exception in how suspicious they are. But, the rule still applies - the Eldar are selfish. They would rather a million humans die than one Eldar fall without his soulstone, and I'm sure they won't make any exceptions for the nice blue cow-people.
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  10. #9
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    They would rather a million humans die than one Eldar fall without his soulstone, and I'm sure they won't make any exceptions for the nice blue cow-people.
    And therein lies the problem..

    Eldar can predict the future.. They will do whatever is in their best interests to secure the most favourable outcome. They will be your best friend one minute, then without warning can turn around and stab you in the back for no better reason than in 300 years time you ancestors might do something bad.

    They can work with other races in the way we might work with dogs, but an alliance implies a degree equality, and Eldar don't consider anyone their equals.

    Tau aren't going to invade your maiden worlds and desecrate the Aspect shrines to replace them with big signs saying "O'Shovah was here, and he totally pwned j00z."
    And I wouldn't be so sure there.. The Tau codex uses the word 'manifest destiny' a lot..

    Tau believe it's their undisputed right to dominate the entire universe.

  11. #10
    Member Governor-Militant Vespa's Avatar
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    Most likely, another excellent point. Eldar aren't exactly the most caring of races, preserving their dying race and accentuating their strict paths hasn't made them into the kindest of folk. Easily understandable, considering what they've lived through.

    As for relations, considering they already tried to initiate some contact with the Imperium through the ages, only to be smacked down by Humanity's misplaced pride (oh Eldrad... if only the Emperor had listened... but nooooo...). Eldrad Ulthuan considered the primarch Fulgrim as one of the hopes of mankind, but as it turned out, he rallied with the Ruinous Powers and his brother Horus when the time of the Heresy came, forever marring the Eldar's views on humankind. It is also true that human technology has a certain disregard for the environment, but also for life itself. Turning humans into mindless servitors instead of trusting artificial intelligence and having soldiers wielding crudely welded plasma guns and cannons (well, compared to Eldar starcannons and Tau plasma rifles) are just small examples of this notion. Mix this with an overly-happy Inquisition at the prospect of eliminating and dissecting xeno-species and and overall tendency to consider any alien as an immediate threat and you get why the Eldar just *love* us.

    Of course, some examples of the contrary exist. Few humans have come into "peaceful" contact with Eldar, the same goes for the Tau Empire, though slightly more frequent. All in all, considering the Eldar's selfish philosophy, the Tau could be percieved as better pawns in an eventual struggle, more likely to fight in front of the Eldar forces if convinced it would be in the interest of the Greater Good to help preserve a dying race (hah... another excuse lol!). Fire Warriors may not be the best meat shields, but Eldar would rather have full cadres and monats fall before letting a lowly guardian bite the dust.
    What do Khorne Berzerkers say to Necrons after chopping some of their bits off? "BLOOD FOR... Eh? Come on! You just take the fun out of it... Scream! Yell! Awww... not even a trace of guts..." *sniffles and kicks dirt*

    "You can go far with a smile. You can go even further with a smile and a gun"

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