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I have recently read on the Wiki site “Lexicanium” that a rumor exists that the Primarch Rogal Dorn is not dead, but instead has withdrawn to serve as leader of the Adeptus Custodes. Now I personally rather like this idea (and it would fit with Dorn’s track record), but I am hesitant to include it in my “world view” of the 40k universe because I have never heard any other source that even hints at such a thing. Does anyone have any idea what originated this idea? I am not asking for a definitive yes or no on whether this rumor is “true” or not, one of the best things about the 40k universe is that it is intentionally vague on many points so the fans can draw their own conclusions. Rather I am asking if anyone knows what book or piece of fluff or whatever gave rise to this idea.
I'll spend some time looking for the exact quote somewhere that points to this, but I know I've read a bit about it, so I can drop the pertinent factors involved (that I remember):
1. The fist-bone that Fists inscribe their insignia on is the only remains whose whereabouts are known.
2. Dorn hooked the Emperor up to the Golden Throne and received instructions on how it worked from the Emperor. He took the notes that allow the Golden Throne to continue running, and is particularly suited for the task.
3. Dorn's personal and emotional dedication to the Emperor is, in my view, unsurpassed among his siblings.
4. Dorn's supposed death assaulting a Chaos ship is not as "epic" as most other Primarch "endings", such as Guilliman healing in stasis, Khan solo-invading the Webway, Russ returning for the "wolf time", or even the fallen Night Haunter suiciding to the assassins. It's just kind of blah.
5. In 40k, the Universe is about as bleak as it can in the Imperium. Holding on to the idea that your demigods still live and strive against your enemies is probably a pretty popular one. Even the SM, such as the Space Wolves, continue to hope and search for the return of their primarchs.
I'll try and find the exact information, but I hope these points help you on your way while I do, or if I can't find it.
This is an interesting idea, but I can't go with it. If Dorn loves the Emperor so much, he wouldn't keep him trapped on the throne.
Sleeping, not dead.
Removed by the moderators.
I cant run with that, a sfar as i know the primarch of the ifsts is as good as dead, why would he keep such a withdrawl secret from his brothers, or all the impirium? how it would lift imperial hearts to know that dorn watches over the emperor.
and then cypher finaly makes it to terra...........
PROUD TO BE IN THE BRITISH ARMY.
~~ Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death~~
I'll send this over the fluff section - you'll get some really good answers there.
This was covered in the novel 'Spacemarine' based on three SMs picked up from Necromunda and their subsequent training and elevation to marines. It says in the novel that the entire skeleton of Dorn was incased in a type of amber, of which shavings of the amber were used in certain initiations. The fists were removed and kept separate and each chapter master was permitted to inscribe his name upon them. Dorn is unfortunately very dead and kept on 'the phalanx'. (Imp Fist fotress monastery)
However, thats not to say that GW may have changed it or made it ambiguous, as they have changed fluff in the past.
Dorn is most certainly dead - unless hes living somewhere minus both hands and his skeleton as whiffy said.
Even in older GW fluff which has nealry all loyalist primarchs alive in some regard (guillliman reviving in stasis, russ in eye of terror, johnson trapped on caliban ferrus dead by fulgrims hands, khan missing corax insane and running off, vulcan missing but alive,) dorn is dead the fluff has has been changed and revised.
Dorn origonal fluff had him dying of old age in his bed - that has now been changed (due to primarchs being immortal)
Guilliman was killed/mortally wounded by Fulgrim
Khan trapped and imprisoned by dark eldar lord (poor git ten thousand years of torture)
Johnson was placed with the iron fortress to heal. in the old fluff luther guarded him as an oracle
at least thats how i remember it
WELL SAID, NO MORE SQUATS THEY ARE DEAD GET OVER ITOriginally Posted by artificer
Ok so this fluff is bogus.
The Lexicanium or whatever got its information from a story on the Black library forums in the fan fiction section called "Rise of the tau". It's almost word for word what you are asking and saying. Despite being totally fiction it is fantastically well written and thought out.
http://forum.blacklibrary.com/topic....78&whichpage=1 (old thread up to chapter 143)
http://forum.blpublishing.com/forum_...p?TID=216&PN=1 (new thread)
The story is well written but is completely fiction and is not actual fluff. But on that note it has been a thought for a while that Dorn isn't dead seeing as his body was never found.
I reject your reality and substitute me own!
I heard a fluff story once that had Rogal Dorn teleporting from Chaos vessel to Chaos vessel but unable to return to the chapter so he got stuck in the Eye of Terror. Any idea where this came from?
'An open mind is like a fortress with its walls unguarded and its gates wide open' -Blood Ravens
First of all let me say that I know most of the mythos sounding the deaths of the Primarchs, and the only consistent bit is that his skeletal hands were recovered after the boarding action in which he died. I do recall reading that the Fists have a large skeleton encased in amber, however the source that I read (I only with I could remember where it was…) was vague as to whose it was, with some Fists believing it to be that of their Primarch. I have been doing some of my own digging, and I think I have found the origins of the idea. I think that the idea can be traced back to the enormous PDF file skulking about the internet know as the “Warhammer 40K Fluff Bible.” One passage in the Crimson Fists section reads;
"Nothing is known of the fate of Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists. Some myths claim that he yet lives, secretly commanding the Companions of the Adeptus Custodes – the exceptionally deadly warriors who guard the Golden Throne itself."
Given the pseudo-reliable origins of this myth, I am inclined to accept it as one of those contradictory pieces of 40K “fact,” not necessarily true, but part of the mythos nonetheless. After all Dorn would be ideally suited to serve as Commander of the Companions as he is the person (aside from the Emperor himself) who best understands the Golden Throne, and he and the Fists served as the Emperor’s Praetorian Guard during the Great Crusade and the Heresy. Given the Fist’s absolute commitment to duty, inherited from Dorn, it is easy to imagine their Primarch withdrawing to serve the Emperor, until he could be freed from the Golden Throne, in repentance for failing to protect him. And let’s face it; the accepted fate of Rogal Dorn lacks the epic aspect of those of the other Primarchs.
Last edited by Just_Me; October 1st, 2007 at 04:56. Reason: spelling