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  1. #1
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    Nurgle/csm fluff...critique?

    Greetings all,

    As I have been trying to decide if I want to pour my heart and soul into either an ork or a Chaos army, I have been trying to work on some fluff, but I really dont want to go too far against canon. Hence, im asking for input/opinions on my CSM fluff, which is still rough until I figure out if im heading in a feasible direction.

    I love Nurgle, and im leaning toward a Nurgle based army, though Renegade.

    Bascially, I thinkt he driving fluff behind my Lord is that he believes (either through a vision, guilt, or just general madness) that as the Emperor lay wounded by Horus, in his last moments he feared that his death would be the end of the Imperium he had spent his life creating. In that split second of weakness, Great Father Nurgle spared the Emperor from death, though he could not completely shirk off the terrible damage done by Horus. Now, the Emperor is sustained through the psykers that allow him access to the Warp, and while Nurgle would love to reanimate the Emperor, the Imperium and anti-chaos sentiment, as well as all the wardings of the Inquistion, keep his influence from reaching the Emperor. Still, the gifts of Papa Nurgle keep him alive, feeding on the souls of the Imperium.

    In this sense, my Lord still believes himself loyal to the Emperor, and that it is in fact his duty to scourge the Imperium, who he believes are keeping the Emperor prisoner, preventing his return. The Astronomicon is not a guiding light for the Imperium, it is a psychic call for help from the Emperor into the Warp.

    Should he be able to raze Terra and slaughter the custodes, the Emperor would re-awaken, and become the ultimate avatar of the Chaos Gods.

    Being privy to this truth, the Lord is sort of a prophet among the Chaos worlds, seeking others to aid him. Only those closest to him, Chosen, Terminators, etc, know his real goal. Other than that he seems just another renegade, as his loyalty to the Emperor would cause other bands to wipe him out.

    Now, ive been trying to figure out if this would be a feasible backstory. I realize he could not 'fool' demons and gods, and so does the Lord. He believes he is the instrument of the gods, ironically Nurgle and Tzeentch (yes I know theyre opposed, but Nurgle is central, as is the greater plan on Tzeentch).

    So, is my crazy renegade a possibility, or would he be smashed to pieces by every other faction as soon as he opened his mouth?

    Thanks.


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  3. #2
    Has a monkey! Imperialis_Dominatus's Avatar
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    He'd probably have to keep his mouth shut save for a small inner circle... I mean it's an interesting theory but I'd say given the nature of Chaos they'd be on his ass if it was general knowledge that that's what he believed. Other than that, would like to see more.

  4. #3
    Senior Member SimulatedSnowman's Avatar
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    It's a cool idea, but I have a few problems with it that maybe you can clear up for me.

    Should he be able to raze Terra and slaughter the custodes, the Emperor would re-awaken, and become the ultimate avatar of the Chaos Gods.
    I guess you could chalk this up to GW over-emphasizing fluff, but if you believe it, a SM fighting a Custodes is like a Guardsman fighting a Space Marine. How would you propose that one chapter of renegades could have even an inkling of a chance against the Custodes? Or will it just be that their goal is to eventually get to that point, and for now they are building their forces and getting support?

    Being privy to this truth, the Lord is sort of a prophet among the Chaos worlds, seeking others to aid him. Only those closest to him, Chosen, Terminators, etc, know his real goal. Other than that he seems just another renegade, as his loyalty to the Emperor would cause other bands to wipe him out.
    I don't think that other renegades would necessarily want to wipe him out, since most CSMs went wrong by trying to do right (such as fallen Dark Angels). Even though some might be beyond the point of still thinking they serve the emperor, I don't think that it would be cause for immediate destruction among every other CSM chapter to wipe them out. If he truly is faithful to the Imperium, he could garner support from CSMs and Renegade Guardsmen under that pretense. If he truly believes he is an instrument of the Chaos gods, then he could garner support from those who aren't under any pretense of being faithful to the Imperium. Plus, if he's worried about being wiped out by other factions of Chaos, how does he believe he can get to Terra and revive the Emperor? In my opinion, it would take a force bigger and more unified than the 13th Black Crusade to even catch a glimpse of Terra, much less storm the palace and get to the Golden Throne. How does he plan to do that unless he posesses more than the might and strength of will that Abbadon has? Now it doesn't seem like you are writing fluff for a chapter that is going to have the power to just smash through the universe and talk to the emperor without batting an eye, but I must say that as you write this, be careful not to over-write your characters and your story.

    So in conclusion...

    So, is my crazy renegade a possibility, or would he be smashed to pieces by every other faction as soon as he opened his mouth?
    I'd say that it is a possibility, and that not every renegade would want to smash him. As I said before, there a plenty of factions of Chaos that would lend their support to him. The fact of the matter is that (especially with Tzeench) Chaos gods are more than willing to use the "loyalties" of anyone in order to achieve their goals. So if the goal is to let Chaos reign, then even if the guy they are supporting is spouting Imperial texts the whole time, as long as he lets Chaos reign in the end, the Gods are more than willing to accept that. Though the problem with Chaos would be that for every faction that would support you, there would be another that wanted to destroy you.

    Still, it is a good idea and I'd like to see more.
    I think you need to spend more time on your floor.

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    Painting Machine! Tekore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperialis_Dominatus View Post
    He'd probably have to keep his mouth shut save for a small inner circle... I mean it's an interesting theory but I'd say given the nature of Chaos they'd be on his ass if it was general knowledge that that's what he believed. Other than that, would like to see more.
    On the other hand, it's a good reason for his Chaos army to fight other Chaos armies, even other Nurgle armies. The warp moves in crazy ways.

    Tekore

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    Swarm Queen of LO grimmtu's Avatar
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    The Emperor, secretly a follower of Nurgle? That's the kind of nonsense you'd expect from somebody who has Nurglings for brains! I like it.

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    Thanks for the feedback so far.

    I am definitely not trying to say that my guy is going to lead the 14th Crusade or anything like that. It is more that he wishes to weaken and destroy the Imperium, one planet/city at a time, and erode the support that allows the Emperor to be kept prisoner. I speak of attacking Terra in the same way any standard marine would talk about it.

    I do realize that the Custodes would bench press my measley marine, but its obviously something he would need to deal with, hence his continuing dealing with Demons.

    Ive been leaning toward his vision as being his guarded secret. Other than that he acts like other CSM, testing those he deems might be worthy through years of battle, then bringing them into his confidence, and killing them is they seems to freak out. Almost Dark Angel Inner Circle stuff, but not to that level.

    Ive also been trying to think about the vision itself. I like leaving it vague whether or not its a possibility, or perhaps a coping mechanism of Lord. Deep seeded guilt over his betrayal, so now he believes the Emperor did the same thing, just on a grander scale, turned to nurgle to avoid death. In that sense, it would absolve his sin as the Emperor did the same thing. Im also thinking that he is not seeking the Emperor to rule all again, but instead be much like Horus, the champion of all the chaos powers, realizing the 'truth' of the Chaos Gods.

    So with those revisions, my other question, *looks around for inquisitors*, is it even remotely feasible, .0000001% chance, that the Emperor could have ever turned to Chaos? Or is he just as strong a deity/entity as they are?

    Then, given his 'devout' nature, but his nurgle worship, what about Word Bearer colors with Nurgle conversions?

    Thanks.

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    Painting Machine! Tekore's Avatar
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    That your Lord had a vision, believes all this, etc. I have no problem with, and it only involves the fluff of your army.

    That the vision is the truth, and that the Emperor is really a servant of Nurgle...there's nothing except your story to back this up, there are multiple threads on these forums that show evidence that the Emperor hated Chaos, I mean really hated Chaos. I just can't see it, and it would take a major revision of the 40k universe to make it plausible.

    Here's the thing, you only need the first sentence of my post to be true. It doesn't matter what actually happened, the Lord only has to have envisioned it and believe it, and there's your story and your army.

    Hope this helped.

    Tekore

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    Senior Member SimulatedSnowman's Avatar
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    So with those revisions, my other question, *looks around for inquisitors*, is it even remotely feasible, .0000001% chance, that the Emperor could have ever turned to Chaos? Or is he just as strong a deity/entity as they are?
    Feasible, but really unlikely. I thought the Emperor really really disliked Chaos. Plus, if the Emperor was saved by Chaos, that would mean that at least Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists, would probably have some knowledge of this fact, seeing as the Emperor gave instructions to him on how to work the Golden Throne, which would probably mean that his chapter and its successors would also have some knowledge of this, thus making them either CSMs or Dark Angel-esque secret havers. And that's just one of the consequenses to having an Emperor that is tainted by Chaos. I'm sure it'd go much deeper than that. A more likely scenario would be that the Lord of your army has been decieved into believing this, and not actually that the emperor is a servant of Chaos.

    Also, another thing I thought of while re-reading your post.

    If he keeps his loyalty to the Emperor a secret to everyone but his most trusted fellows, such as his first company or what have you, then does that mean the rest of his chapter is simply following Chaos as other CSMs do? Or do they also have that whole misguided loyalty thing going on?

    Either way poses a set of problems. If his troops do know about his loyalty and agree with his goals, then being of SM nature, they probably would not want to have the help of Chaos and would just assume try and accomplish their goals on their own.

    If his troops do not know about his loyalties to the Emperor, and indeed have nothing but hatred for the Emperor, then they would most certainly find out eventually when he starts to retain allies who are of a similar mind to the Chapter Lord. It might be possible for the Lord and his personal staff to keep a secret, but when he starts getting support from allies whose loyalty to the Emperor might not be as big a secret, that could cause problems.

    I'm assuming that in this case, your marines are in the latter category, so does the Lord ever plan on telling the rest of his chapter what they are doing? Or is he content in manipulating his battle brothers to attain his goals in true Chaos fahion?

    EDIT: Argh Tekore you and your stealing of my first sentence perfectly! *Fist shake*
    Last edited by SimulatedSnowman; October 23rd, 2007 at 17:48.
    I think you need to spend more time on your floor.

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    I definitely envision my Lord misleading the rest of the Marines, save perhaps his dedicated Terminator body guards. His goals are in line with the rest of Chaos, smash the Imperium get to the Golden Throne. Only my guy believes when he achieves this, he wont find the carass, he'll find the new Daemonized Emperor, and kneel at his feet.

    One thing I want to clarify is that I am not trying to make a 'good guy' army with the Chaos rules. I love Chaos. I just want something a little different for my backstory, motivations (since I like to do little stories for all my battles).

    I think my main focus with the possibility that the Emperor could be corrupted is not 'could it be true' more than 'is it so implausible that any self respecting chaos marine, even if deluded by Tzeentch or the Deciever or whoever, would not believe in its possibility'.

    The stuff with the Primarchs and Rogal Dorn definitely throws a wrench in what is actually possible, but that is not something my Lord would necessarily know about or is insurmountable to his beliefs.

    I think I will part with the 'cult' aspect of it, as I see what youre saying about rallying allies and whatnot. Instead, it is his own personal cause. It is not to 'save' the Emperor, but serve the Chaos Gods by releasing the Emperor.

    Now, next question, is it too much of a stretch to put out there that there are agents on all sides who are aware, through some means or another, that my Lord is privvy to some secret knowledge of the Emperor. This would make him sort of hunted by members of the Inquisition, other Chaos warbands, Farseers, whoever. They do not know that he is mad, but theres enough of an inference that some wish to get their hands on my guy. Or would that make me too 'over significant'?

    Unrelated to the story, how do many of you fans of Chaos deal with fluff wherein your Lord is the 'leader', but you wish to play with a Demon Prince?

    Thanks for the continuing comments.

  11. #10
    Senior Member SimulatedSnowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szfraniec View Post
    Now, next question, is it too much of a stretch to put out there that there are agents on all sides who are aware, through some means or another, that my Lord is privvy to some secret knowledge of the Emperor. This would make him sort of hunted by members of the Inquisition, other Chaos warbands, Farseers, whoever. They do not know that he is mad, but theres enough of an inference that some wish to get their hands on my guy. Or would that make me too 'over significant'?
    I don't think that is a stretch at all. You could explain the Inquisition knowing about this because of their vast networks of spies. Some kind of dramatic Vox transmission or pict feed showing the head of your army preaching or maybe a last transmission from an assassin overhearing what he's saying to his chosen. Someone claiming to think that the Emperor is actually a servant of Nurgle would be madly hunted by the Inquisition. Though I guess the fact of the matter is, he's chaos and that's plenty reason enough for the Inquisition and Imperials in general to want to get him.

    Farseers might go after him because if he does get to the golden throne it could be some cataclysmic event that could destroy the Eldar, even if your Chaos Lord's beliefs prove untrue. Plus there are a myriad of reasons why Chaos would fight Chaos, though if you wanted it to be because they know he has this knowledge, you could chalk it up to good old martial rivalry. Every Chaos legion wants to be the first to storm Terra, even if that means they have to kill potential allies to do it.
    I think you need to spend more time on your floor.

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