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  1. #1
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    An indepentantly advanced human civilization

    Alright, so here's the question that's been bugging me:

    Who would accept the notion of a non-imperial human civilization which has eked out survival for itself on the fringe and either maintained a significant level of "lost" human technlogy or brought itself up to a technological standard similar to that of the Imperium itself?

    Would this be an acceptable basic background for an army using the rule-sets for, say, Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines?

    I really like the new Chaos Space Marine codex--the way it plays, not necessarily the fluff or the way it relates to the old Chaos Space Marine codex. In addition, I have begun to grow a little tired of the Ultramarine aesthetic. I still like them, but, between my love of the new Chaos rules and my ennui towards my old Sspace Marines, I'm really thinking of starting a new army.

    On the other hand, I really don't like the Chaos Space Marine aesthetic. I can't really buy into the idea of playing ancient traitors who hate humanity and have enslaved themselves to the Ruinous Powers. There's just no appeal there, for me.

    So, I hit on this idea: I'd use the set of Chaos Rules to represent a small band of human renegades, either reliant on pilfered imperial technology, or backed by a smaller, independant human civilization somewhere on the edge of space. Obviously, some things would have to go. I'm not really interested in Cult marines--the icons (with the exception of the Chaos Glory icon, which can easily be described as the effect of a particularly inspiring squad leader) Daemons and Greater Daemons, Defilers, Posessed, etc.

    So, the question, then, is this: Would this idea fly? Could you, as a player, accept my army if I put it on the table and told you that I was using the Chaos Space Marine rules to represent this other band of non-imperial humans who weren't really affiliated with the Chaos Gods in any way (and had the appropriate lack of spikes and funny iconography to show for it)? Would you just be confused and angered by my disregard for the fluff and not-very-chaosy models using Chaos rules?

    I'm interested in opinions.

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  3. #2
    Nightlord frozencore's Avatar
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    I would accept it more readily if it was an IG army. Anything with power armor is a little far fetched because making a space marine is a long and difficult process, and maintaining the armor would be difficult if you didn't understand the technology.

  4. #3
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    I think it's a long process for the Imperium because, largely, they don't understand it, and they're not allowed to.

    I postulate that a human society in the 41st millenium without this horrendous choke-hold on technological innovation and research could feasibly produce and maintain a suit of powered armour which yields an effective +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, and a 3+ save. The Tau produced a suit that has +2 strength, afterall, though it is significantly larger...

    Let's presume that any such technology, be it Imperial in origin or otherwise, would be understood and backed by a enough manufacturing capability to maintain the equipment of a small force. Certainly, neither presumption is impossible.

    Even so, you certainly have a point. I just don't really want to play Guard =P
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  5. #4
    Member Dekendo's Avatar
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    I would believe the 3+ save but the toughness and strength are another issue. I would think a people like this would be more like sisters of battle (normal humans in power armor) than space marines. Just an idea for you.
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  6. #5
    resident iconoclast Left of West's Avatar
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    Yeah, you're probably right.

    On the other hand, I really think that Sisters ought to get at least +1 Strength from their powered armour. I mean, Stealth Suits get +1 Strength from their armour, is the armour on the Sisters really so much worse?

    Oh well...maybe I should just stick to the corsair style renegade marine idea...
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  7. #6
    Senior Member Sitnam's Avatar
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    The thing about stealthsuits is that they are much more advanced. The reason Marines get a strength increase is not only the armor but the genetic egineering.

    As for your renegade force, I myself think it is plausible for them to be backed up by a independant, but advanced human planet on the fringes of the galaxy. Maybe this chapter once took part in a effort to cleanse the planet fbut turned on the Imperium, and have helped fortify the planet and trzain its forces in return for a steady supply of equipment. I could easily see a force like this holding out and more then likely escaping imperial attention. Maybe to make them unqique you can model a new helemet to give them some different look to both SM and CSM. You would need some conversion skills though.
    Last edited by Sitnam; January 11th, 2008 at 01:40.
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  8. #7
    Nightlord frozencore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Left of West View Post
    I think it's a long process for the Imperium because, largely, they don't understand it, and they're not allowed to.
    Its a long process because it takes a long time to genetically engineer someone to have +1 strength and +1 toughness. These are superhuman people in powered armor. It has nothing to do with understanding for the stat increases, everything to do with the capabilities. Since no one in the universe can create space marines except the human empire, I would find your idea questionable.

    Also, if they were to create some sort of awesome tech on their own, why have they been hidden for so long? Certainly someone would have come in contact with them.

    On another note, despite the abundance of space marine players, according to the fluff, a bolter is supposed to be extremely rare and difficult to maintain and repair. The issue I have with the space marine issue is that if someone gave them a bolter it would be next to impossible to have them keep it running for any length of time without understanding what to do to maintain it(and it is still difficult even if you do). In necromunda bolt weapon have higher chance of failure to represent this.

  9. #8
    Gone LittleBlueMan's Avatar
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    Totally.
    I would totally play you.

    It could be a higher gravity world, so there is the strength and toughness. Maybe they are getting help from Tau. Maybe they are getting help from actual chaos marines, or real marines, or whoever.

    But it is feasible, so long as the models are good, the model sizes are normal, and every squad is easy to tell. Honestly, it sounds like a great idea. Go for it.
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  10. #9
    Drills baby. Da Mighty Camel's Avatar
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    Of course it would work. The galaxy is a large place!

    On the issue of Power armour, no, not everyone in the future can produce them and equip their forces with Marine-equivilant weapons. The weapons and armour of the Marines, along with the genetic engineering, is extremely advanced and no other faction than the Imperium can produce that level of technology, even if it is only reproducing by ancient blueprints.

    But your count-as faction does not necesserily have power armour now do they? They could be, as the Blue Man said, be on a high-gravity world that have made them more like a sub-human faction (like Ogryns, Ratlings or Squats/Demiurgs, although those are the extremes) that have increased strength and resilience along with a suit of armour that grants them a 3+ save. As long as you don't say that they run around in Power Armour and using bolters...

  11. #10
    Member skullhammer75's Avatar
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    In one of the hourus novels they meet a world who do have power armour and bolt guns they said in there that the armour etc is a STC blue print, so a faction stuck on the fringes with this STC but limited space travel/no psykers seems ok to me, and could make a intresting force.

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