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I think that there are two legions of Traitor space marines that are still sane. The first is the Thousand Sons, while this might be a effect of following Tzeetch I think it has more to do with the personality and circumstances of thier primarch Magnus. Magnus is an extremely intelligent and powerful sorceror probably the most powerful. He was examining the warp from the getgo to learn how to control it and use it for the Emperor. However, the only reason he turned to chaos to serve it was because he had no other choice. He was betrayed by Horus, and he and his legion had to survive. He dosen't worship chaos he merely serves it, he knows that there are no gods, merely extremely powerful entities. He knew that Chaos when left unchecked was detrimental to the mind and body. Now, his son Ahriman recognized this, and worked to eliminate the influence. His rubric stopped the horrible corruption of the Thousand Sons and he probably saved his legion. This action allowed the legion to still be a rational and sane brotherhood. They make war to strengthen and enforce thier legion. In fact they seek to control Chaos to stop it corrupting humanity. Or at least Ahriman does.
The second legion that is still sane is the Iron Warriors. They still do warfare as they did it before the heresy. They are not frothing fanatics of chaos, they do not seek to deify the four Chaos entities. They only seek to revenge themselves on the Imperium. They despise physical corruption, as they remove mutations and replace them with prosthetics. They rely on technology to conduct warfare, not the esoteric qualities of Chaos.
Sorry if I rambled a bit, but I am sick of the stereotype of all Choas Space Marines being insane, devotes of Chaos. The two legions that I play with do not fit that mold.
Evil Overlord Rule Number 196.
I will hire an expert marksman to stand by the entrance to my fortress. His job will be to shoot anyone who rides up to challenge me.
Insanity among other things is merely a label placed on an enemy to make them less appealing to those tempted by them. I don't really think most of them are insane to begin with, just dealing with their own circumstances.
Insane would be creating a Chaos God out of your own decidence that nearly wipes you race.
Or waring against each other for the fun of it because there are no other enemies to fight.
Or choosing to exterminate a planet for the actions of a select few without saving the rest.
And the above three races... well two really because the second doesn't really give a damn, have the audacity to call other insane simply because they choose an alternate path.
The Emporer was insane for not opening Magnus message before he ordered his execution. The Eldar were insane for running back to their homeworld after encountering the Tyranid. Plenty of "sane" races are pretty damn stupid most of the time.
But as far as Chaos is concerned, they all made deals and got benefits out of it. And as you said, some didn't make the bargain and make due just fine.
Be a cop or be a robber, but when you got a gun to your head, what's the difference?
ArlethVann I think your forgetting a few legions...
1) The Night Lords, they actually hate chaos! While they're not perfectly united they can present an organized front to their enemies. They still fight like they did during the Crusade, matter of fact the way they fight is why they went rogue! Additionally Night Lords could not get any marks or use any daemons sides furies in the 3.5 codex.
2) Alpha Legion, I don't know much about Alpha Legion but I remeber they didn't worship chaos that much or daemons because they operated so far from the Eye that chaos was less certain than usual.
So yeah...and yes the old CSM were less crazy then they are now, its only in the new codex that they have become a horde of seething chaotic maniacs, especially my poor Night Lords...*sob*
After reading Lord of the Night, I disagree with this. The Night Lords did not wield terror as a weapon such as the Night Haunter taught them. They instead obsessed over terror beaing the ends, and n0ot th means. That is insane.1) The Night Lords, they actually hate chaos! While they're not perfectly united they can present an organized front to their enemies. They still fight like they did during the Crusade, matter of fact the way they fight is why they went rogue! Additionally Night Lords could not get any marks or use any daemons sides furies in the 3.5 codex.
I myself have actually been thinking of the fluff for "non-insane" chaos worshippers. For example, a warband of Khrone who war not as berserkers but instead fierce, determined warriors. Or a warband of Slaanesh who seek self-fullfillment and individualism rather then the self-indulgence of the Empoerer's Children. The Chaos gods representive facets orf mortallife, but the most notorious of Chaos have went to the extreme of each facet.
Really defining insane is hard the it all comes down to whos looking at it what their thoughts are etc.
No race or person is ever sane or insane 100% of the time.
Imo those depest worshipers of the Emperor are more insane than Chaos. At least Chaos know they still have gods and can see their effects.
The Emperors survents give up everything that makes them men to do work for a corpse that they have no solid proof is anything more than a pile of useless skin and bones.
Actually, some of the msot devout worhsipers of the Emporer can see his efforts. These are of course the Sisters of Battle, and their ACts of Faith. They alone are fervent enoguh to gain what seems like divine interference in their battles.Imo those depest worshipers of the Emperor are more insane than Chaos. At least Chaos know they still have gods and can see their effects.
Alpha Legion seem like the least insane of CSMs. It's kind of a paradox though. One could argue that in order to have the kind of decade spanning plans that the Alpha Legion have, you can't be insane. You'd have to be completely clear and focused. However, the kind of deviousness involved in plotting someone or something's downfall over the course of years and years of minor events culminating in a overwhelming and spectacular defeat reeks of a crazy savant.
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars
I would disagree with you Sitnam in that some NL fell to darkness as you described others did not notably Zso Saheel, who eventually realizes his mistake after he gets owned .
While all chaos space are insane to a point, I think they definately vary in degrees of madness, some like Khornate or Slaanesh followers are quite clearly mad and act in a way to suit that. Others like Night Lords or Iron Warriors fight in a more calculating manner rooted in reality more often than others, for example Kharne is &%#^ing crazy and Lucius enjoys dying!
Well, to be frank, I think all Space Marines in general are nuts. I mean, they are killing machines bred for war. They are more familiar with a gun than I am with... I don't know... something.
On marine standards though, I would have to say that the Thousand Sons don't stand too high on the sanity list. Most are mindless suits of armor now. The rest are crazed sorcerers.
I guess the Iron Warriors aren't as bad. I would have to agree with Revelations that the Alpha Legion is there too.
I am heading off to the Peace Corps. It is bery likely I will not be back. Good luck to all of you endeavors.
I wouldn't call a dude who almost teared the webway apart and knows more about Chaos than any other human (except the Emperor) insane. Ahriman knows what he is doing. You can call Kharn insane, he fits into the category. And maybe Lucius. But even Typhus has more reasons for his actions than just his own ego. So its isn't so easy. The Blood Pact is a very disciplined Chaos Force, capable of using highly advanced strategics and tactics. They have good logistics and support, making them a very dangerous enemy. And as shown in the new Rulebook, even World Eaters are capable of reason and logical thinking.
Humanitas dominatus omnis, de iam dum terminus aetas