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I have always thought that the Imperial Fists had a decidedly Roman feel to them - disciplined beyond most others etc - and their most sacred relic even says 'Roma'.
My question to all you fluffmasters out there is how far does the roman influence extend?
Would it be feasable to refer to my veterans and terminators as Praetorians for example? Mainly for command squads etc?
Are crested helmets all the rage? Or is it too much?
Can anyone give me some pointers to more information on IF's - I have the Index Astartes articles and have trawled the wiki stuff as well as the last 3 codecies, is there more I can look at.
The reason I am asking is that I am currently doing an Imperial Fist army and looking at adding a bit more flavour to it.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon
I don't know a whole lot about Imperial Fists, but if you give me some basic stuffs or articles to glance over I could probably help. Thinking back over what I do know, I can't think of anything that stands out all too terribly much.
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I wouldn't say it was so much Roman as more Greek, Roman, Greco-Roman themes. In the codex it talks about a "phalanx" formations, which is from the Greeks. In addition, the Romans were anything but a "defensive" army, which the fists are characterized to be.
However, the Praetorian were strictly designed to guard the the roman emperors, and swelled to the size of a small army during the early principate (imperial Rome).
I think your terminators could go for a more praetorian look (purple cloth, head feathers), but other aspects of the army may want to draw from other sources of the ancient Mediterranean.
Modeling wise, consider redoing chain swords to look more like the short swords of the day. Maybe use some components of black templars or dark angels to model on ceremonial garbs and togas.
Another cool idea would be taking fantasy Empire spearmen and making some sort of 40K bolter-spear out of it with a shield to model Roman infantry. Sounds hokey, but maybe it will get the gears turning ;Y
Thanks for the replies.
Out of the two main chapters with that influence the Ultramarines appear to have more of the greek feel to them so I was left with roman for the IF's.
I know the Praetorians were originally the bodyguards for the early emperors and I think I can vaguely remember reading somewhere that Dorn and his legion were referred to as the Emperors Praetorians - all though this may not be accurate.
My idea of incorporating a 'preatorian' unit into my Imperial Fists was to use them as a retinue for my commander. Model Wise I was going to give them cloaks similar to the BT Sword Brethren, the whole over the shoulder thing or just settle for capes. I was also toying with the idea of doing an assault terminator squad with thunderhammers (or something that counts as them) and storm shields made to look like the large Romanesque shields - something like Lysander is toting but more Roman-y.
As for the 'phalanx' formation being largely greek it was improved upon by the romans resulting in the standard legio formations
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon
Wasn't Lysander a Spartan king or general or something?
Don't go too roman or too greek.
And don't go too mad either. Most Imperial Fists look like vanilla marines after all. They are just bright yellow..
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and my attempted foray into fantasy
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The Ultramarines also have a bit of a Roman thing, if you look at their honour guard unit for example..
I guess Roman military concepts are quite embedded into the theme of space marines in general anyway. The idea of standards as sacred honor tokens, for example, and the whole dividable organizational structure. I would describe both the fists and ultramarines as 'greco-roman' (if anything I'd say Ultramarines were more roman and fists more greek) and I think they can pretty much pull off either.
And Phalanx is not a formation in 40k, since it depends on the use of long spears and requires incredibly close drill it wouldn't be very effective anyway. Phalanx is the name of the massive spaceship which houses the Imperial Fist fortress monastery. Necron detachments are also called Phalanx (plural) but I think that's an unrelated aside..
Or is it!!!!!11! Cue more silly conspiracy theories about Necron control over everything..
Oddly.. I really like the bolter-spear idea.. Reminds me of the Custodes and their bolter-halberds, but never mind.
And I think the Relic says Roma because the Legion was founded in Rome. That doesn't necessarily mean ancient Roman, of course, as at the time the whole planet was a post-apocalyptic world of fun and who knows how much of classical culture survived, but meh.. suspend disbelief.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; March 5th, 2008 at 16:41.
The Iron Snakes demonstrate their futuristic evolution of the Spartan phalanx in Abnett's novel. It's really very simple; every marine is given a combat shield, a bolter and two spears. They get up in a line, and as the enemy charges at them they start shooting with the shield there to protect them from enemy fire. Since they were fighting Orks, they figured that they'd end up in melee anyway, and as the Ork charge closed in (weakened by gunfire) they all closed ranks, lifted their shields, grabbed a spear and made out like 300. The bolters were really a modern addition to an ancient tactic, and their efficiency was aided by the fact they were being commanded by a Librarian, who could predict what the Orks would do and when.
Librarian: Hmm. Yes. I do believe they are about to charge.
But yes. I'd disagree with Mantis and say that the Ultramarines are the greco- and the Fists are the -roman, but in all honesty it matters little because the symbolism and traditions intermingle. The Fists sport fascias and laurel symbols, the Ultramarines wear a letter of the Greek alphabet as their symbol, Marines on the whole are Spartan in their demeanour and their military organisation (10 units of 100 men, each with an individual commander and one "veteran" unit) is reminiscent of the Roman Legions. The Imperium itself is ancient Rome and Nazi Germany and the USSR and late medieval Europe all at once; it's a melting pot of historical references.
I don't know much about the relationship between the Necrons and Dorn's capital ship, but I can safely say that it it just proves the existence of what I call the "Necron number". Every item in the Warhammer setting is six or less degrees of separation from the Necrons. They've got their cold skeletal fingers in every conceivable pie in the known universe.
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