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Ok so I might be insane for even thinking of this, but hear me out for a second (and then promptly tear it apart, thats why I'm posting it here).
In my mind, from what I have read (Tyranid Codex and the two most recent Chaos Codexes), I thouht that if there were any force able to ally with the Tyranids it would be the Chaos gods, and as a result the Chaos Space Marines. My friends seem to agree that this would be possible when I have talked to them about this.
The reason I believe this is that the Hive Mind is a seemingly intangible force which communicates only with its followers, so it would seem that the only entity that could even communicate with the Hive Mind would be an equally intangible force, the Chaos Gods.
While I am not totally sure whether the gods of Chaos have a physical presence or not, but I am pretty sure that they have a non-physical presence, and that presence could come into contact with the Hive Mind, and this contact could result in a sort of alliance due to both parties similar motives: The Tyranids need for the destruction and consumption of planets and the Chaos Gods' need for destruction and the dismantling of the Imperium.
The Hive Tyrant could tighten the leash easily on the Tyranid forces to avoid Chaos Marines and the Marines could be ordered to let the Tyranids be, thus the destruction ensues. Even after the dismantling of the Imperium they could fight each other, and the forces that control them could enjoy the resulting destruction (no one said they were benevolent gods).
Would this be at all possible? Or am I off my rocker?
Possible yes, but very unlikely. What would the Chaos Gods gain from this?
Khorne hates psychics of all kinds, and would probably not consort with a race whos entire social structure is based on strong Psychics controlling weaker ones. Even if they are nice in close combat.
Slaanesh would see no reason to ally with a race that prefers precision and efficiency over pleasure and excess.
Tzeentch could have motives that would lead him to join with the Tyranids in order to further a goal, but i'm not sure what those motives would be. Still unlikely, but perhaps Tzeench is the most reasonable option.
Nurgle probably wouldn't care much about other beings unless they were test subjects or something to spread disease and death amongst. The only thing i can see Nurgle liking about the Tyranids is Venom Canons. Maybe deathspitters.
The chaos gods can barely get along amongst themselves, if i remember correctly there have been several fights amongst them. If they can't even agree with eachother, why would they join a bunch of alien freaks? And this is all assuming that the Hive Mind would agree as well. No one knows how it works, or what its true motives are (Except maybe Tigurius).The Tyranids likely just see CSM as more meat for assimilating.
Yay! You tore it apart! (No sarcasm, I wanted that).
But yeah, I didn't look at it from what would be gained, I kind of just looked at it that they have the most chance to ally with it...
It would be interesting if only one of the gods alligned with the Hive Mind... Like Nurgle using the Tyranids as vessels for his plagues, similar to plague marines but bigger and more vicious.
But yeah, thanks for the reply!
But there are other possibilities too. The most obvious one is genestealer conversion.. As I understand it, Brood brothers don't get attacked by other Tyranid creatures until the appropriate time. For guard or even marines, you might assume they've been infected some time ago and are now coming out of hiding now reinforcements have arrived to answer their prayers (or not.)
Hmm.. The other thing would be to assume there's some kind of new symbiote-bug. Perhaps a worm which burrows into other creatures brains and takes control of their bodies, or some kind of super-Zoanthrope which can mind control large populations.
Also, it's implied a bit in the SM codex that the Ultramarines chief librarian Tigurius may have some capacity to influence the Tyranids psychically. Maybe in this specific case he's managed to hold them off attacking long enough to direct them at some other enemy.
That would be nasty... great stuff!
I really want to convert some zombie-nids now... If only I had conversion skills above newbie levels!
But yeah I seem to recall some stuff like that psychic control, it cetainly seems likely, I think even in the Tyranid codex there is a small bit of it, if I recall correctly a Psyker gets into one Hormagaunts head and stops it just before he is swarmed by the rest of the brood climbing up a wall, or I might be totally wrong on that...
Blizzard and GW have a long and complicated relationship of copying... whether they realize it or not. Tyranid and Zerg, like the Chicken and the Egg.
i personally love the idea of a Khornate Carnifex. The sheer destruction something like that could cause would be awesome.
A nurgle infested malanthrope would be pretty awesome too
I think it should be possible, simply because of the inifinite options available. Besides, there's a bit of chaos inside everything.
I dont think there is any way for them to become "allies" but i can deffinatly see Chaos powers useing the nids, tzeentch could easily manipulate them to cross paths with an intended target and if nurgle were to place a tainted vessle in their path he oculd concivably infect a hive fleet with desise.
PROUD TO BE IN THE BRITISH ARMY.
~~ Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death~~
Nids are zombies already.
That being said, while isolated examples of cut-off hive ships being infected by Nurgle and such do exist, the Hive Mind is presumably immune to the effects of and unconcerned with the existence of the Chaos Gods.
The warp, the home of the chaos gods, is shut down by the presence of even the vanguard Hive Fleets seen so far. Everything is blotted out. What's more, all signs point to the Tyranid bio-constructs being soulless ... mere conduits for the psychic energy and will of the Hive Mind. They revert to beasts when they are removed from it, even the genestealers simply being very cunning beasts a la super velociraptors, and all fluff indicates the various beastlife / wildlife of the 40k universe has no signature in the warp or influence on it. You don't get the Deer god in the warp from all the worshipful and psychically present deer in 40k. Corrupting the Tyranids, then, would get the Chaos gods nothing in terms of worship, and so would not increase their power ... they could of course be used as a tool, but I doubt it.
The Tyranids intend to consume everything, feeding the Hive Mind, which is itself effectively the greatest warp god in the universe ... especially if you consider the Hive Mind encompasses a net Tyranid presence that is much, much, MUCH bigger than what's been seen so far. By eradicating the Milky Way, the Tyranids eradicate the Chaos Gods, b/c they eradicate their followers. Common knowledge that without "believers," the gods cease to exist.
In any event, the long and short is that while the Chaos gods would be infinitely wise to try and find some way to ally with the Tyranids and stop them from inevitably eradicating their source of power, the Tyranids would have no reason whatsoever to return the favor.
I'm a much bigger fan of the notion that the C'Tan's "great work" is the Hive Mind. A giant soulless psychic presence that utterly eradicates the warp within its bounds, and shuts off all warp travel and presences. The C'Tan's plan WAS to eradicate warp travel ... plus, the C'Tan have no interest in consuming souls - only biomass, and the Tyranids effectively convert entire populations to willing (or unwilling) biomass ... genestealer infestations convert people to willing subjugants ... other Tyranids break them down and recombine them in whatever form is desired.
Nothing implies the C'Tan were from this galaxy only, so there's no incompatability with the extra-galactic origins fo the 'Nids. Plus, Blackstone Fortresses ... super powerful killing devices ... perfect for eliminating entire Hive Fleets. Amirite?
Anywho, rambling now ... I think Chaos sure might want to influence the Tyranids to be on its side, for the sake of its own survival ... but the Tyranids have no motivation to return the favor. By the fluff, the Tyranids are unstoppable, and are the inevitable doom of the galaxy. As I've said before, they are Father Time. Consider them the plot-moving equivalent of old age. Just as you cannot convince time itself to stop in your favor in this real world, you cannot convince the Hive Mind to stop its inevitable conquest in the 40k world.
The activities of the other races occur at the end of the galaxy ... on the eve of its apocalypse. The second hand is one second from midnight, and midnight is the arrival of the Hive Mind in entirety. This is equivalent to the completion of the C'Tan's great works, or the death of Emperor and rebirth of the Star Child. Chaos can as much ally with the C'Tan or the Star Child as it can with the Hive Mind. They are not ally-able forces, but inevitable galaxy-ending shadows of doom, to give the 40k universe its color and dark pessimism. More realistic is the notion that one of the tiny vanguard fleets seen so far, upon its destruction, scattered a few hive ships here and there ... far more targettable fodder for the corrupting influence of Chaos.
PS - Final note, I don't think infecting a Tyranid hive fleet with nurgle diseases or anything would be bad. Any power Nurgle had to infinitely influence his diseases would falter under the shadow of the warp as soon as the infected fleet was reunited with the primary Hive Mind. At that point, all Nurgle accomplished is the inclusion of ever more powerful biotoxins, genetics, etc., into the Tyranid bio-factory. The Tyranids might say thanks?
Heck, paint your Carnifexes red for those bloodthirsters the fleet consumed ... instead of toxin sac additions, stick nurglings on all your gaunts ... give a Zoanthrope the wings of a Greater Demon of Tzeentch, the changer of ways changed in turn ... give a Tyranid two Slaaneshy lashes, instead of a lash whip and bone sword ... those Daemonettes sure tasted good. The Hive Mind is an equal opportunity assimilator.
Last edited by MVBrandt; June 11th, 2008 at 15:44.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt