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Now I know Chaos is still young, but this could work, if the warp universe has been copying the material since they where pysically linked.
Anyway I have been wondering this for a bit of time, and was wondering because there are 4 surviving ctan and 4 chaos deities.
The Ctan are ordered in nature I believe, like a dictatorship, leading there warriors, without letting them have emotions or free will.
Chaos on the other hand, is frictioness, though the warriors are still controlled, they do get emotions and in excess in most armies.
Now at first I thought this the mere coincidence, though when I thought about it I wondered maybe the Ctan and Chaos, are the ordered and chaotic sides of the same being.
This is similar to the warp universe and the material universe, as the material is ordered, the warp well is just plain chaotic. Now if the warp had not been brought into the material universe, by the ever smart elves or old ones, things would have remained all fine and dandy.
But well the warp came in, blah de blah.
Now if a chaos and ordered version of a being comes in contact, like if you met a mirror universe version of yourself, there would be friction, as you are of course the opposite, so I believe this applies to the Ctan and Chaos.
The first connection I thought of was nightbringer and nurgle. First nightbringer is death incarnate (as said in the codex), nurgle on the other hand, is death and decay.
Nightbringer is more, slash your dead, though nurgle likes to infect slow painful death, and is more the art of death; where nightbringer is more clear cut deletion no second thought about the matter.
The next connection, is the deceiver and tzzench(sp?), both are scheming, both devious, but tzzench would rather unite the gods to his advantage, well deceiver would rather, delete the other Ctan.
Now I am still having problems connecting khorne and slannesh, with mars dragon, and the outsider, but thatâ€™s because I have not seen them yet to make the connection.
Though there where many other Ctan, but none of those where that strong in my opinoin or they would have survived, much like the many minor chaos deities which have been lost in the pages of chaos mythology.
Now some may say that the 5th god malal does not fit into this, but this is because he is no longer in the fluff. Though saying that Malal could still have an opposite, if so, I would say it is either a 5th ctan we have no knowledge of, that was consumed millennia ago, or the 5th being of order could be the emperor.
Now according to storyline (fluff lords correct me if I am wrong), the Ctan went to sleep because they overestimated the power of chaos to destroy everyone else, and because they had the technology to divide the two universes (material and warp) again with there pylons.
Now as you know it is in chaosâ€™s nature to destroy everything ordered, and so to ultimately destroy itself (malal). Now orders on the other hand is to not destroy chaos but to balance it (this is why Ctan are merely trying to seal it off, not destroy them).
Chaos can never really destroy all order, as there needs to be a balance, though chaos does not care and tries to anyway, this is why it took longer then the Ctan thought.
Another thing correct me if I am wrong, is that Ctan cannot exist in the warp, and vice versa (chaos fade after a time in material universe like demons usually do).
Now IF the pylons on cadia failed, the mixing that the old ones stupidly started completed, the warp and material will be one plane. Though the chaos will be diluted by the material in a way, it will still be all the Ctan hate.
Ctan and Chaos are in my opinion the extremes in there side of the bar (like communism and fascism).
Though if they are connected is another matter, though if they are it would be interesting considering the numbers, and the fact both the minor chaos gods, and the minor ctan where destroyed or absorbed by there bigger brothers.
Back to the old ones quickly if they where the even balance, why bring chaos in? Even if it was by accident, it is in there nature to make everything exist in equilibulim. Well maybe the merging of both universe would be in there ideal perfect. As IF the Ctan and Chaos are the mirror reflection of each other, then ultimately they to would merge when the universes merge.
This would have been the Old Ones way to get rid of the Ctan, by making the Ctan like themselves, by making the Ctan merge with there chaotic half of there soul, making in result 4 perfectly neutral being, the old ones would have known that the warp will create a mirror image, even if it took millions of years, and the invention of humans to do so.
That the warp would create a warp imitation of the big bad in material e.g. Ctan, and so Chaos was born.
Now this is probably complete ramblings, then again if it was true, it means that games workshop has made there story much deeper then we think.
Now, I know I didn't keep up with the Eye Of Terror but this theory is a little slippery.
Are you suggesting that the only way to really bring a natural "order" to the universe is to invite chaos into the material relm???! Whoah. That'd be weird. Its true that if a Ctan encounters the warp - it is killed, thus the Talismans, and it'd be strange if that was the reson for it.
Once again, though, I feel that this whole theory is GW's new "goodguy/badguy/third-party" approach. They've been doing it ever since the universe was recreated by the fluff masters:
In the begining, you have two dimensions. Each one is the complete opposite of the other. This in itself leads to conflict - it always does and always has. But if these to opposing forces join together as one, it leads to perfect unison. All they need is a third-party (the old ones - and their armies) to help them along the way.
Phe, I don't really like it but the simplicity is strikingly interesting. Nice piece of fluff really - I'll take a note.
"Where dere's wun - dere's ple'ty more!"
Interesting theory you've got there. I've never paid it much thought, but I've always found the 4 C'Tan/ 4 Chaos gods thing very unsettling...
In this sense, would it be that the true enemies of Chaos are the Necrons, instead of followers of the Emperor?
*RANT MODE ACTIVATED* Incidentally, could the Necrons actually be the ancestors of humans? Just assume that their metal forms are based on the skeletal structure of their former selves. Now why do their skeletons look so much like human ones? And Pariahs. When the C'Tan created Pariahs, why did they immediately think of humans? *RANT MODE DEACTIVATED*
EDIT: Oh, by the way... Necrons must die! (Almost forgot back there that I'm fanatically anti-Necron.)
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>[Subliminal message] I AM KING [/Subliminal message]</span>
Hmmm that makes an interesting point, what if, the necrons, before they came robots, some got away, went on terra, and evolved to humans?
then that means that the emporer would be the 5th being of order, and the oppisite to malal, that means the emporer would still hate chaos, but also hate ctan more, like malal does to chaos.
okay I have confused myself. :blink:
anyway it does make interesting theroy
No the C'tan are not humans. Humans were monkeys at the time of the War of Heaven (or whatever it was called).
â€œCry â€˜Havocâ€™ and let slip the dogs of war!â€? - Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I
:blink: Okay, ive been into gw and espescialy gw fluff for as long as i can rermember, lets see that would have been.......... well a long time. but who is malal?!?! the 4 chaos gods represent the 4 basic human emotions, hope,despare,hate and pleasure. whats malals emotion? bieng *****ed? and arnt the c'tan anti psyker? isnt the emporer the biggest psyker humanity ever produced? :blink:
Children in the dark cause accidents, accidents in the dark cause childen.
I've not read much into GW fluff but I've heard somewhere that the Necrons were similar to humans before the huge battle with what I think were Eldar (65% sure) in which they almost destroyed themselves because they fought so hard, hence being made skeletal to try and make them live longer. I don't know about Malal, he/she/it wasn't even represented by one of the rooms in the last level of Fire Warrior. And I thought that Slaanesh was an Eldar emotion (also the youngest god), and thus the Dark Eldar. (i heard the ast bit on this site). dont quote me on any of this tho my ramblings are generally useless to the world.
Ravenwing: list made, now just to buy all the stuff on it (why do bikes have to be so expensive?)
Very interesting. . . However you missed one thing:
Slannesh. He came into being, i believe either around or after the C'Tans were killing each other, don't know much about the fluff, but when was the Eldar fall in regard to the C'tan and Necron's time when they were causing havok? If not, then Slannesh couldn't be a mirror image of some C'tan cuz he's after the C'tan, so i don't C'tan and Chaos are connected to each other (however this doesn't mean they don't hate each other). Correct me if i'm wrong on anything.
"And whoever wants to be a creator in good and evil, must first be an annihilator and break values. Thus the highest evil belongs to the greatest goodness: but this is--being creative."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~
Slaanesh was born in the 30th millenium, his birth screams clearing the galaxy of warp storms, enabling the Emperor to re-conquer the galaxy. The C'tan fought each other 60 million years before that.
â€œCry â€˜Havocâ€™ and let slip the dogs of war!â€? - Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I
Slaneesh was born from the corruptness of the Eldar race. at that time the Eldar and Dark Eldar hadden't split and worked in the peak of Eldar age. the birth of him caused the Eye of Terror to open up in the middle of eldar space and suck up armost everything but a few craft worlds. this all means that Slaneesh was born after, LONG after the C'tan went to sleep(or whatever they did).
every body say Waaaaagh!