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A while ago i can't remember when, i remember reading something about how Horus and the Chaos gods were actually the good guys while the Emperor was misleading the space marines and the rest of humanity down the wrong path. I can't remember how this went exactly but i was wondering if anyone here knew what i was talking about?
Also, i was wondering something... but i can't remember. I'll edit this post when i do.
OK i remembered the other question. It had to do with the wars between chaos and humanity. I read somewhere that all of these battles are suppressed so that most humans don't even know that chaos exists or even the space marines exist, let alone that a 10000 years war has been going on
Last edited by IronGauntlet; July 5th, 2008 at 04:58.
I don't think Chaos was ever stated anywhere as being good. The only possible plus point in their corner is that they told Horus they were only acting self defence - they wanted their place in the universe and were happy to let us have ours, but we started encroaching.
I firmly believe the emperor deliberately mislead all humanity and the space marines, but I don't think it was for good or evil - I don't think such a thing really exists now, let alone 40000 years into the future.
The chaos gods saw a threat and tried to stop it - the only 'evil' thing about the chaos gods is they play on mans weakness, ego, pride, hate, whatever - they reacted the same way a space marine chapter would do when the nids come calling.
I can't say I've seen it all but I live for the things that keep me hollow.
Ahhh, perhaps you've heard of my "Rogal Dorn is the False Emperor!" theory! When the Emperor retired from the Great Crusade, he also turned over a lot of his civil authority. Well, you have surely heard about how arrogant Rogal Dorn is, although his bootlicks called him 'proud'. The sad truth is that Dorn, with the complicity of the Council of Terra, Sanguinius and the Dark Angels, quietly seized the reins of power and cut the Emperor out of the loop completely. This is why the Emperor was rarely seen after putting Horus in charge; Dorn & Co. had him under house arrest as they pretended to be following his will.
Dorn set about establishing himself in the pecking order of the Astartes. Sanguinius and Lion El'Johnson joined him while the Iron Warriors were mistreated and pushed to the breaking limit, as they competed with Dorn's ego in the art of siege. Conrad Kurze discovered Dorn's duplicity, but when Kurze went vigilante on him the others saw it as one of Kurze's outbreaks of madness. Fearing more acts of vigilante justice, Dorn and the Council of Terra quickly began a systematic campaign of propaganda to discredit and eventually disband the Night Lords.
Trapped in the depths of his own Palace, the Emperor used his psychic powers to alert Magnus of his plight. When word came to Dorn that Horus had been warned, Dorn ordered the Space Wolves to attack the Thousand Sons for violating the Emperor's decree against using warpcraft--how ironic! He then staged the Isstvan Massacres but the plan was hastily planned against a forewarned opponent. Open war had broken out.
Horus immediately sent his fleet to rescue the Emperor. The war on Terra began but ground to a stalemate. Dorn was running out of space and manpower; Horus was running out of time before the traitor legions arrived. Both were desperate. Via Magnus, who by now was on the run from the Wolves, Horus arranged a daring rescue. The Emperor managed to escape from his jailers long enough to reach a teleporter. Horus lowered his shields and the Emperor beamed aboard. Unfortunately, the traitor Primarchs knew of this--they were on their guard concerning psychic messages after Magnus' warnings--and teleported aboard Horus' ship at the same instant.
The fight was epic; lesser beings than the Primarchs died quickly. Horus was at the top of his form but the Emperor was seriously weakened by captivity, torture and malnutrition. While El'Johnson and Dorn kept Horus occupied, Sanguinius flew past and savagely attacked the Emperor. In an unexpected move, Horus spun around, swiftly executing Sanguinius at the cost of baring his back to the other two traitors. Dorn quickly backstabbed him. Horus called for El'Johnson's help, promising forgiveness if he stopped Dorn even briefly. El'Johnson refused out of fear of Dorn, and Horus was murdered.
Horus' Legions began to be hunted down, and eventually were forced to find solace in the Eye of Terror, the one place in the galaxy Dorn could not reach. There, the Dark Gods made dangeous offers to the dispirtied Astartes, granting them longevity and opportunities to one day, some day, rescue the true Emperor from the false one in exchange for their service and devotion in the meantime. Most of the Legions accepted, while a couple kept their own council.
Meanwhile, the plotters consolidated their control. Recatured, the Emperor was put into an artificial coma induced by the Great Throne--cruelly called a life-support device. The Council of Terra became the High Lords, Guilliman reformed the Astartes to prevent any of them from being strong enough to take Terra and Dorn ruled as the undisputed Warmaster. El'Johnson, mistreated at Dorn's hand, later regretted not helping Horus and tried to make amends by leading a civil war in his own Legion. And lastly, the Blood Angels discovered that the Emperor had managed to place a psychic curse on them while being cut down by Sanguinius.
Ten thousand years later, the Thirteenth Black Crusade is the "Traitor Marines"'s best chance yet for dealing death to the False Emperor...Rogal Dorn of the Imperial Fists!
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
wow................ just wow
Definitely an interesting take on the whole saga Intrepid....now you just need to convince GW that is the -real- story, and see how they alter the universe
Mysterious Member of the ANZAC Clan
Story seems to hold pretty well IMO for the possibility of this "false emperor". But giving your supposed story, how would you explain Dorn attempting to keep marines organized into legions rather than the chapters Guilliman proposed if he was afraid of one amassing enough power to dethrone him? And why leave the Emperor alive at all? With Dorn in power of everything, including the palace guard, couldnt he march right to the Golden Throne and flick 'off'?
-Alaitoc Ranger Force (1850pts)
plus this could work i guess... one flaw.... The word bearers were already chaos and had corrupted Horus.
Interesting take, intrepid..
I don't know if I can buy it though.. It just takes a lot of 'what ifs.' For one, Rogal Dorn wasn't that tough.. He nearly died fighting the Night Haunter. The Emperor, in fighting Horus, defeated all four of the chaos gods present in one being. If it came down to a contest between the two.. I'm going with the multi-million year old superhuman. Heck, the Emperor didn't even need to touch Horus to kill him, in the end. Without the crippling injuries, he could have done the same to Dorn then probably sat down to breakfast.
Not to mention, Dorn may have been arrogant (Perturabo and Fulgrim were both infinately more arrogant though) but he was also the most morally inflexible, self righteous and 'honourable' of the Primarchs. Part of honour is respect for leadership. He just doesn't seem the type to be a usuper. Not to say he was a nice guy (I always found him annoying as a character) but that just doesn't seem to mesh with him well.
Also, under that story, Horus could simply be reborn in an instant through the power of Chaos. It was because the Emperor annihilated him utterly that he couldn't simply be given flesh back and live again, and that was inserted very deliberately.
Anyway, back to the point..
Horus would not ever be called the saviour of humanity, I don't think. Chaos erodes any sense of humanity, in the end. But he might be called the saviour of posthumanity.
Societies dominated by chaos are inherently brutal and Darwinistic. The weak suffer what they must, and the strong rise above them by virtue of being strong, only to be ultimately toppled themselves. The raw order of nature takes presencedence over human structure. Change replaces tradition. Ego replaces morality. Individuality replaces collectivism.
Then again, is that really such a bad thing.. Sure, if you're the snivley mutant cultist then it's pretty bad, but if you have the strength and the ambition to rise above, the rewards are impossible. Ultimately, immortality awaits. Whatever rewards came from Imperial rule, they don't really compare.
The Imperium under Horus would doubtless have been pretty glorious. With the full power of Chaos manifest in the world, there's no limit to what might have been possible. The cost is just humanity itself. Which is better? I think most of us would say the Imperium, but then, being humans we're quite biased. Still, would you give up humanity for a shot at daemonhood and immortality? Deep down, I can't say I wouldn't. ;P
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; July 6th, 2008 at 13:38.
Well, we all know that's not the emperor in the golden throne but horus, a nice switcheroo after the grand battle . Think about that one!
Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
Voor alle nederlanders:
The Dutch Legion
Interesting but it doesn't really fit.
Why was Lion on Earth during the Siege when his Legion wasn't?
Rogal Dorn may still be ruling Earth in the shadows, but he didn't betray the Emperor.
Horus cannot power the Throne as he was an empty husk, and a badly burnt one at that.
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff