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Afternoon ladies and gents!
I'm looking to start a deathwatch army, the idea that I was most interested in is the extensive modification of bolter's as their mainstay weapon, I was looking to arm as much of my force as possible with these and yet still hopefully have a usable army.
Now the chapter approved rules are great, but only give me one unit.... Not enough, so I started looking around, and came across the chaos rules. Here's where it gets controversial. I'm thinking of using the thousand sons (suppression fire squads, led by the chapters elite), and noise marines (take and hold squads with specialized assault weaponry), to construct the core of my army, backed by librarians and probably dreadnoughts.
My question is, how best do I represent this fluff wise (I'll worry about the models later, but I want the theory out of the way), there is nothing in the list demonic, or otherwise mystical that could not be explained by marine technology, I'm not using tzeentch psychic powers, so they are effectively marines.
The thousand sons would be the easiest by far I think, I could rationalize them simply as bolter equipped marines trained to advance steadily towards an enemy, implacable in the face of the enemy, and equipped with the best in order to achieve their objectives (so, force shield generators, or possibly the protection of the librarian, and armor piercing, or full metal jacket rounds with recoil dampeners or suspensor harnesses to allow firing on the move).
The noise marines could go down 1 of 2 options.
1: Rigorously drilled to combat the speed of there enemies (+1initiave), and equipped with the best possible to take and hold objectives, (suspensor's and recoil dampeners allowing for the increase in fire rate, maybe a visor linked scope system to allow for accurate firing at range)
2: Wielding xenos technology. In the Horus heresy series, the emperors children discover the means to create their sonic weapons after an encounter on an alien world. There is no reason that this technology could not have been adapted by the mecanium in order to use it against their foes.
Any thoughts? I'm a bit lost on how to do this....
I think you have a good idea going. The reasoning for the Thousand Sons is sound. They can represent the Death Watch who are trained to take on the Necrons. Their AP 3 bolters (full metal jacket rounds with recoil dampeners sounds best) are designed to bring the 'Crons down, while the forcefield allows them to actually stand up and exchange rapid fire with a Necron Warrior Phalanx. The Aspiring Sorcerer can, of course, represent that the C'tan are not the biggest fans of psyker powers.
Noise Marines can also work.Perhaps they can represent the Anti-horde/Anti-Speed factors of the Death Watch. Blast Masters can represent mobile servo-harness missile launchers that can fire a small cluster of rockets on the move (Varied Frequency) or a large explosive missile while standing (Single Frequency). Sonic Blasters can be specialised Storm Bolters that can either fire on the move, or a rapid torrent of fire standing still (suspensor's and recoil dampeners allowing for the increase in fire rate maybe?). Doom Sirens can represent the squads local flamer for cutting through groups of Orks/Tyranids.
Another good idea for this army would be Chosen. A very versatile squad with the ability to take a large variety of weapons, they can be tooled up to face any xenos threat.
I would not go for dreads as they don't really fit fluffwise IMO. Few chapters would lend their sacred champions to the Inquisition, and the Crazed rule wouldn't fit a loyal Astartes Dreadnaught fluffwise.
"Dear Diary: Today I may of accidentally registered myself as a sex offender. WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE!" - Dinosaur Comics
Thanks for the support mate, and those ideas sound great. I especially like the idea of a servo harness mounted weapon, but wasn't intending on using blastmaster's, so might apply it to the doom siren, and have a servo mounted flamer system.
I see what you mean with the dreadnoughts, I was only including them as a bit of heavier support, but I could use the chosen as you suggested to pop tanks and the like, and indeed be tooled up to attack any other threat.
Any other ideas? Should anything else be included in a deathwatch army?
Well there has been no gasps of terror or cries of 'BLASPHEMER!' So I'm gonna go ahead with this idea me thinks. Just entered into the soul binding contractual agreement that is tale of painters so expect an army in 6 months time!
Just a few clarifying points, the word 'army' seems like a bit of a misleading concept in this case, I'm thinking one of two directions, either this is going to be a strike force assembled to combat a particular Xenos threat as part of a larger imperial army, under the control of an ordo xenos inquisitor. The anti-alien tactical sized scalpel of the force.
Or possibly a grizzled task force of the deathwatch's best accompanied by a member of the adeptus mechanicus perpetually tasked with seeking out the weapons of the enemy to be jealously hoarded and taken apart back on the forge worlds for imperial gain. This force has now been temporarily attached to an imperial army (I'm thinking of possibly using them in apocalypse games alongside my guard and =INQ='s) requisitioned by a particularly zealous and radical inquisitor seeking to liberate technology from a powerful foe. (I'm thinking maiden or tomb world).
This second explanation would make it even easier to explain the high tech weaponry represented in the force, as the adepts eagerly lavish the best upon there aids in greed ridden anticipation of far greater returns.....
I'm leaning towards the second, any thoughts any one?
Hmmm.... I thought I had precedence for that, as when reading all the deathwatch fluff I could get my hands on, I found referances to the deathwatch occasionally using xenos technology on it's creators and 'enjoying the irony'. Also the callidus uses a c'tan phase sword does she not?
However, I'm thinking the high tech aspect might be the better route. I like the idea of lost tech though as you suggested, each weapon being a relic of a past age highly guarded by it's wielders.
Could lead to soon cool conversions if I'm careful too...
Yeah, Ordo Xenos can use xenotech, but it opens up a whole can of worm, like "Where do I draw the line between 'cool' and cheesy?" The ancient tech road is less hazardous. But, as I said, it'd be up to the specific Inquisitor. Some - the radical ones - might even rely on xenotech, although that would make the Inquisitor an extraordinary individual, since even they aren't above suspicion. Otherwise, I can easily see one-off Alienhunters using a piece of looted xeno-tech, but without the Inquisitor's order, not whole squads. "Strange things happen in high places," to cite Col. Maybourne.
As for ancient tech, the Dark Angels codex states that the original purpose of Terminator armour was to protect the wearer from the conditions existing inside a power core (Presumably while conducting repairs). This is a very cool precedent.
However, I was specifically referring to the Mechanicus adapting xenotech for use against the enemies of the Imperium in my post. That is one major no-no, this being one of their equivalent of the 10 Commandments: "Alien tech is bad - just say no." That's not to say rogue Mechanicus wouldn't, though.
Note: The word "much" somehow fell out after "frankly, I doubt it would happen" in my last post. That's what I get for typing while unslepten.
I don't think the Deathwatch have as many taboos against using Xeno tech as most of the Imperium would be. Any Inquisitor worth his salt will have a Jakaero mini weapon.
So a squad of Xeno hunting Deathwatch who have replaced their flamer with a Firepike they looted from the Eldar would not be so controversial. They would probably have to fast and meditate and do cleansing rituals before and after, but sometimes Imperial tech is not the answer.
Of course, giving whole squads Xeno weapons is wrong too.
Super Storm Bolters for sonic weapons seems about right.
You just have to be careful about not going too far over board.
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff
Thanks for the input guys, I'm gonna go ahead with this project as I mentioned before, and I'll be using the ancient and upgraded tech premise to represent the rules. With the release of the new marine codex the thousand sons won't be an issue (after all sternguard vets have ap3 bolters due to ammo should they desire it), and the advancing while firing could easily be attributed to training.
My sonic blasters will be represented by modified storm bolters (model wise I'll probably use 2 bolters combined, a circular or box clip to represent the added ammunition and either a scope, helmet or backpack based targetting system), with the doom siren being a servo harness mounted flame/plasma hybrid, the idea being that the promethium is interspersed with superheated plasma to create an inferno unseen in most personal weaponry.
I think any xenos technology I'll reserve to being the realm of sargeants and HQ, even here probably limited to alien blades, or personal weaponry. I really like the idea of a jakearo minature weapon though... Are there any iron warriors special rules anymore? I was considering a representative of the mechanium, but can't really see how to include him.... Possibly either a veteran sergeant with a power fist (and give him a servo arm) or the same but with a lord....
This all sound feasible?
Thanks again for the help hammering this out. I would prefer the fluff on this to be as solid as possible to avoid complications.
I too have a Death Watch army, ive been building it up over about four years now, and ive read as much fluff as i can about them, and figured out how to build up a perfext Ordo Xenos force around a legit Imperial force list.
Now some of you find it Interesting to use Xeno tech with your deathwatch, i would point out that it is in dying need that ANY Ordo Xenos representative would ever use such a filthy piece of alien tech. As such it would not be common practice for every sqaud to wield such items. now ONE Alien weapon per army is more to the like of the Ordo Xenos, Be it a Tau rail rifle, Dark Eldar Splinter cannon or even an Eldar Star Cannon mounted.
Best way to use the Ordo Xenos`s forces correctly is to using a combination of Two Armies and include the chapter approved. Now using the Ordo Malleus Codex you can created a suitable inquistor lord to lead your forces, now thanks to the power a Lord has you can then build your army out of a Combination of Space Marines and Imperial gaurd. Now from the Space Marines i personaly took Ultra Marine Chapter as an Ally i used thier Space Marine Sqauds lead by DeathWatch Veterans, Tyranid Hunters, Lead by chaplain and mounted in Razorback, and thier Dreadnoughts. Using the Ordo Malleus Codex i bolstered my Troop options by selecting Shock Troopers (aka Kasakin) mounted in chimeras, Now taking the actual Death Watch Troops as my second HQ.
This is a perfectly legal force and is Usualy the way the Ordo Xenos Fight.
As for an entire Deathwatch army, fluff was it shudnt be done, their is not enough Fully trained deathwatch marines in the imperium to build anywhere near a chapter strength force, at best combined you are looking at 200 maybe 300 men strong.
But dont get me wrong i like the idea, its just... not at all possiable fluff wise.