Orks versus nids

[Splata]

I believe what AA means is that they get produced elsewhere, not in the hulks that they have in the splinter fleets.

This will blunt that particular splinter fleet's attack allowing you to destroy them.

This was shown in the war on maccragge where marnius and his crew went after the fleet, killed the norn queen and everyhting just started to rely on instincts instead of fighting as a cohesive force.

[Tutankhankh]

Duh. I'm sorry, I'm a bit dumb right now, 'cause I'm entering my 39th hour without sleep. Damn philosophy course and making me want to prove free will to myself.

[omegoku]

Orks Waagh relies on the warp, if the Nids fill the warp with static (shadow of the warp) it is possible that other orks will not know of the big fight going on ova' dere.
So unless the Orks build up enough of a waagh, they will just be defeated piecemeal.

Therefore, I would go with Tyranids for the eventual win.
Then again, a Warlord who is smart enough will tell all the Orkz in all directions about the major scrap to be had facing nids, so the fleet would be blunted once that happens.

It is the same as with the Imperium, if the Imperium has enough time to react, it will win by bringing its massive power to bear on the threat, the problem is that the threat hits hard and fast.

[mente enjambre]

Originally Posted by AlbinoAlien

Right. Tell me beardy, where in the wide world of fluff did you find that nugget of information? That little tid bit on norn queens half dozen on sale in local tyranid markets? In most books i've read, when a norn queen dies, that entire splinter fleet loses synapes, but you know, unless like, the hive mind's got some spares in the fridge? case that big one gets shot up hmm?

Just try to read the tyranid codex page 27 "hydra effect".

[AlbinoAlien]

I've just finished reading it, and it's exactly as I bieleved. Of course the fleet makes more norn queens, but what im trying to tell you is that this takes time, serious time. It's not like one dies and 6 more pop from the ground going "BLIMEY!", it takes the fleets that receieved the bio scream to build thier queens.

Orks don't rely on the warp in the sense that they need it to gather, there's never mentionof some pychic wave that lets an ork know where a good scrap is, they do it via mouth. And the shadow of the warp caused by nids dosent stop pychics, as there are plenty of examples of pykers fighting nids in bunches of novels. It simply ceases long range communication. Now, of course if the nids find an isolated section of orks and cut em off real good like, then yes, most likely they'll succceed. But when you get into ork controlled space, it's hard not to hear about the good scrap going on.

page 29 of the ork codex gives a good example of nid vs ork wars, waagh blaktoof is what your looking to read.

[Beardy_Wierdy]

Originally Posted by AlbinoAlien

Right. Tell me beardy, where in the wide world of fluff did you find that nugget of information?

Codex: Tyranids

Originally Posted by Codex: Tyranids

This we have dubbed the "Hydra Effect", for, upon the death of one Norn Queen, a number of others are calved and thus the progress of our demise is merely slowed, not, counter to recent communications, stalled

Basically, when a Norn Queen dies it sends out a whacking great psychic signal and any bio-vessels that intercept said signal grow a Norn Queen (if they dont already have one). Certainly it takes time, but given the way Tyranids grow, my guess is not very much.

Of course the answer to this question isnt actually going to be resolved until GW decide what heppens to the monstrously big Tyranid-Ork fight going on in the Octavius system.


EDIT: Ah, youve read it, I'll leave this here for those that haven't then.

[omegoku]

Originally Posted by AlbinoAlien

Orks don't rely on the warp in the sense that they need it to gather, there's never mentionof some pychic wave that lets an ork know where a good scrap is, they do it via mouth. And the shadow of the warp caused by nids dosent stop pychics, as there are plenty of examples of pykers fighting nids in bunches of novels. It simply ceases long range communication.

Everything that controls ork behavour is warp based, from growth rates to communication.

How does one have 'word of mouth' over interstellar space? A few Orks may run off to tell some nearby orks about a good scrap, but it is the psychic waves emanating from the fight that calls orks, orks are sometimes attracted to non ork fights too, seeing a good fight, they dive in.

You can use psychic powers but it is dangerous in the extreme, that is why there is (or at least was) a rule that made failing psychic tests more likely near Synapse creatures as the feedback caused Psychics to explode and stuff.

[Leech]

Originally Posted by AlbinoAlien

Orks have numbers, ability to grow en masse alot of places, and most importantly, initiative. Let me explain that part, where nids are cold and calculating, always consuming, orks are growing, learning, rambugcious, inventive creative peoples that can adapt to a situation and what nots. Where orks have strategy, nids have replaced with evolution, which is thier form of adapting to threats. Now, what you have to understand is that nids devouring of bio life is only done after they've conquered a planet. they wait until the planet is ripe an ready, all oppositon eliminated, until they feast on a planet. Until then, they give the orks a amazing breeding ground in which to produce, an enviorment filled with jungles and ripe vegitation, places orks just loooove to breed.

Tyranids have initiative too, infact Tyranids learn very quickly. Tyranids aren't a mob that brainlessly rushes forward. They are inventive and very capable of cooking up new ideas. The method they use is very different from Orks or ours but it is no less effective, possibly more effective. Evolution isn't an alternative to strategy, it is what allows for a varied and complex strategy.

I have no idea where the idea comes from that that I have heard so often that Tyranids wait very convieniently for thier enemies benefit to eat and reproduce. The consumption of a planet starts the instant the first spore enters the atmosphere and then reproduction starts. It increases as time passes but it always starts right away. The process of destroying an enemy is just a part of the devouring process, that the enemy has guns or whatever does not matter. The destruction of the enemy is just another part of devouring a world. No enemy is powerful enough to be considered above that task. To destroy an army is the same as eating grass or adapting to swim through a river, it is all just a part of the consumption process.

The Tyranids would create no good breeding grounds for Orks. They would destroy their breeding grounds utterly. The changes Tyranids make are made to give them control of the eco-system. This new enviroment is utterly hostile to all other forms of life including Orks.

I think about the original question that it all depends on the circumstances. Orks are very numerous and I have heard it said that if they were to unite nobody could stand against them for long. However they never do unite. The biggest Ork Wagggh is only a tiny thing compared to thier overall numbers. Tyranids do have an edge in having an overall strategy and a plan to do what they do as a united force. The only real reference to Tyranids and Orks fighting is in the Tyranid codex, (a conflict started by a former Inquisitor). It outlines that the conflict between the Orks and Tyranids is slowly benefiting the Tyranids. In the long run they will emerge worse than before.

[bedcrum]

Well, in reply to the whole "kill the hive ship" thing, what happened on Maccrage was not normal for a tyranid invasion in that there was only one hive ship in the entire fleet, leaving one to draw the conclusion that what attacked Maccrage was but a splinter fleet. As stated in the tyranid codex, page 14 "Splinter fleets may comprise as few as a dozen hive ships" this seems to indicate that, unless you can somehow fool them long enough to destroy upwards of a dozen of these extremely heavily protected creatures, you can't just kill the queen and be done with it.

Also, remember that what is currently fighting with the orks is but one single tendril of but one major hive fleet. There is also a tendril currently approaching from below the galactic plane i believe. If this tendril were to go towards the octavius system, the current balance, if it can even be called that, woul be upset and the tyranids would win. You see, unless you go throughout every galaxy to find and exterminate every single tyranid, they are not going to stay away forever. Eventually they will come back, having devoured even more biomass, and eat you. Also stated in the tyranid codex ""The Tyranid race represent the eventual doom of both mankind and the alien races who inhabit the known galaxy." This is in GWs own book, which would indicate that it is of their opinion that eventually the tyranids will eat everything. So we have:

Tyranids: no longer hungry

Everyone Else: no longer living

[nec. lord 11001010]

it says that about necrons in the necron codex as well, and probably in others too.