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Who is truly the strongest of the psykik's, the mighty Farseers of the Eldar that aid them in their eternal struggle againstShe who thirsts. Or are the sorcerer's of Tzeentch the true masters of the warp? Bear in mind by chaos I mean marine sorcerers, not Daemons such as Lord of Change as it's obvious they can out psyk any mortal.
This is a fluff based discussion, not actuall game rules.
Well, it seems hard to say, actually.
The question I see raised is: Are Eldar truely mortal? I have no idea on this, by if they are truely 'Space Elves' then they should be Immortal.
Also, it seems mortals can be really nasty psykers too. Take the Emperor of Man for example: Just by thinking, he made Horus cease to exist and sent all 4 chaos gods reeling from Horus' now non-existant body in terror. Now to terrify one chaos god with psychic power is a feat to behold, but all four, while completely obliterating the chaos gods chosen vessel of doom and destuction, not to mention the Emperor was missing one eye and his entire face when this happened. That's nothing to sneeze at. This example shows that mortals can be psykers on the level of a Greater Daemon.
I don't know enough of the Eldar fluff to actually make a comparison, but yeah, if there normal psykers are anything to go by... Hmm... Eldar super-psyker... Ouch.
Not bad, but the topic is geared more towards Chaos (tzeentch in particular) sorcerers vs farseers. Good job though
I'd say we don't really have the information necessary. Naturally, if you compare Ahriman with Jo'shmo Warlock, Ahriman comes out on top, and if you compare Eldrad Ulthran with Gioszmokh Sorcerer, then Eldrad wins. Since I don't have the CSM Codex, myself, I can't compare Eldrad to Ahriman or a Sorcerer to a Warlock or Farseer, but I'm not sure measuring rules-wise power can truly decide who is fluffily the most powerful. Especially since Eldar and Chaos followers have quite different approaches to using their psychic powers.
In short: I doubt we can really make a good judgment on that.
Last edited by Tutankhankh; September 26th, 2008 at 01:50.
About Daemons: they are masters of the warp as itas shapers, but they shouldn't be classified as psykers themselves as they are not mortal beings.
The funniest thing about it all is that there are individuals, mortal ones, far beyond powers of both Tzeentch chosen and Seers of Eldar: the humble uncontrolled human psykers linked only by their imperial classification: alpha levle psykers, able to control minds of whole plantes' inhabitants, pull a battlecruiser to planet's surface (The Force Unleashed?!) and many other thing, where Farseers' power to hurl a battle tank high into air or Sorcerer's ability to send a powerful bolt of energy seem... well, weak.
Usually they are human in form, and not Astartes, but I do not remember if they have to be human ones. They are hunted by Inquisition all, but in new rulebook there was a time in 40k chronology when alien (not specified... eldar? ) cyborg ultra-psyker controlled the minds of population of thirtheen planets. Don't tell me that Ahriman or Eldrad could even dream of it.
(...etc, but of course the mighty Inquisition got him... damn the Imperials!)
About Seers and Sorcerers - there is a being more powerful then both and connected with both. A daemon possesed not-any-more farseer of Eldar serving Tzeentch. Who would face such individual? With Daemonic pacts service included?
Well, it's worth mentioning that a Farseer tends to control their own power by not drawing directly from the Warp, but instead utilizing runes and other constructs to siphon it, thus protecting him/herself from the Warp. Who knows how powerful a Farseer might be if they were to circumvent this? They might easily eclipse even an Alpha+ level human. Conversely, they might actually turn out to be less powerful if the runes actually boost them.
As for the Sorcerers, since more powerful human psykers tend to be more like a buffet than an ally for daemons, their relative lack of power to the more powerful 'wild' psykers is quite natural.
chaos wins--- this is always the way.
But it does raise the question of quite how powerful the Eldar were at their zenith. They won't have had farseers then, of course, since there was no path but they will have had their own brand of mentally twisted psi-freaks. Of course, they would still have been highly vulnerable to the other powers of chaos, so that would always have been a limiting factor, but it's possible they could have reached a disturbing level of power before their heads imploded and they started vomitting daemons.
It's a very different sort of power.. Chaos sorcerors channel the raw power of chaos, so they excell at nasty, destructive painful effects which embody the raw nature of chaos. Farseers are incredibly subtle, intricate psykers who tend to specialise in precognition and subtle influence. The latter has far more control, but I'd put the former ahead in terms of raw power.. Chaos sorcerors can do things like drive entire planets to mass sucide then feed on the collective energy released by the deaths, which is a little beyond the scope of most farseers (why would they even want to?)
Still, there are Eldar psykers free of using runes. And mostly servants of The Great Enemy.
All chaos sees the hideous mutation and being preyed on by daemons as not a side effect of controlling chaos, but being blessed by their gods. Especially Tzeentch since not only he has the most powerful pyskers, but he also gives out the most mutations.