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    Ultramarine successor chapter and deviation?

    I have gone back about 10 pages in this forum, looking for any topics that are similar to my question, and I have found none, so I have decided to create a topic.

    How likely is it for a Space Marine Chapter whose gene-seed comes from the Ultramarine gene-seed to be deviant and while they still use the majority of the Codex Astartes, they have notable deviation (such as tacts, corrupted/evolved gene-seed, views, etc)?

    I would ask that answers try not to be biased and try to stay true to 40k fluff. Right now it is my plan to go ahead with this for my chapter. Do you think it is a good idea, or should I pick a different Chapter for the gene-seed base. The problems with picking a different first founding chapter is that 1.) most chapters come from the Ultramarines, so there is a lesser chance that the chapter would be from a different one, and 2.) I know little fluff of Space Marine chapters outside the Ultramarines.


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    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    UM geneseed stability is on the high side of average, a major (fluff) reason for their having so many successor Chapters. Mutations are not unknown; however, they are usually not dramatic changes like the Space Wolves or Blood Angels (the two founding Chapters with the least stable geneseed.)

    Based on the 4th Edition SM Codex, most chapters deviate from Codex Astartes to varying degrees. Generally this takes the form of emphasizing one part of it over another (close combat at the expense of tanks, specializing in anti-Ork tactics, and so on) but can also include equipment variances (some Chapters have almost no Terminator armor, others train their sargeants as Apothecaries, etc.).

    There are a few UM successor Chapters who go a long way from CA. The Invaders Chapter usea drop pods to the complete exclusion of most other tactics. The famous Blood Ravens emphasize psychic ability to a point that few others would even consider, and you could probably find a couple others. And the Mentors Chapter actually tries to add to the CA.

    Note that there are no cases of Codex deviations based on embracing radical mutation, at least not from UM geneseed. There is the Cursed Founding, in which a few new Chapters did that (most notably the Lamenters, Black Dragons and Flame Falcons), but they suffered for it.

    I don't know how much this helps what you have in mind. If you're looking for a Chapter in which some minor geneseed mutations would not be unusual then the Raven Guard or Imperial Fists would be better choices than Ultramarines. Major mutations would still be grounds for extermination, however, so any such Chapter would have to be renegade or allied with Chaos. If you need more fluff then lexicanum.com is a good place to start.
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    Member The Forgotten Savior's Avatar
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    well it depends on your play style which chapter you want to come from, not just because of statistics/knowledge.

    To your first geneseed question, however possible it might be for an ultramarine successor to have corrupted gene seed its highly unlikely. The reason so many chapters come from the ultramarines is the very fact that the gene seed is not messed up whatsoever, resulting in it being generally a much safer route.

    However, many chapters other than the ultramarines still follow the codex astartes, it just varies on how lax they are with the rules. For example it is said that beside the ultramarines, the imperial fists are the epitome of the codex astartes and the only real difference is their stubborness and refusal to accept defeat. While space wolves for example have their own chapter structure, oblivious to the codex astartes. Most chapters listed in the book are codex chapters, even if they are from different chapters just with slight differences in fighting styles/preferences that make all SM chapters unique

    In the end, its better to base your chapter off of your personal play style. If you like melee and nordic essence go space wolves. you like melee happy religious warriors go black templars. Everyone has knowledge of the ultramarines, its EVERYWHERE in the SM codex, the whole fun is finding or creating a chapter you can relate to, REGARDLESS of what its geneseed or founding chapter is.

    If you list your play style, im sure we can point you to an existing chapter or help make your own.
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    I did not mean so much as mutation concerning the gene-seed, but the following:

    Omophagea: The Omophagea allows the Space Marine to gain part of an organism's memory by eating its flesh. The chapter disproves of this practice. It is said that the genetic material of the organism is absorbed into the Space Marine. The chapter fears that this may lead to corruption and mutation of the Space Marine and his gene-seed. Because of this fear, the chapter's apocecaries altared the Omophagea long ago. The implant no longer absorbs genetic material eaten by the Space Marine. The implant is still used because the Chapter believes that the implant is important in other functions. It is arguable whether the implant still allows the Space Marine to gain the memory of others.

    This fear, although rather supersitious, appears to be somewhat valid because of an event in 671 M38 in which the Captian of the 5th Company ate the flesh of a xeno psycher in an emergancy to gain its recent memory. This led to the corruption of the Captain which resulted in the majority of the 5th Company turning renegade. Chapter Master Athanasius Alexandrius himself led the Crusade against the Renegade Captain which resulted in the Company's extermination. Chapter Master Athanasius made a pledge to Lord Inquisitor _______ (need to come up with a name) that he and his chapter would above all take an offensive against impurity and heresy. This has led the chapter to focus on purity and loyalty to the Emperor and his Imperium more than the other traits of the Space Marines.

    Oolitic Kidney:
    This implant purifies the body from poisons and gases that would kill the Space Marine. It appears that the Chapter's Apothecaries have been able to develope a stronger and more effecient version of the Oolitic Kidney. This may be linked to superstition that outside material might be absorbed into the gene-seed and the Space Marine's genetic code by certain organs in the body.

    Betcher's Gland: The Chapter still impants this gland in its recruits, however, its use is frowned upon and is only used in dire circmstances. This view on this implant seems to come from the Chapter's encounter's with Tyranids which spat toxins and accids. The Tyranids in the Chapter's view are degenerate masses of impurity. The Chapter disdains the Tyranids so much that petty actions, such as using the Betcher's gland, are frowned upon, just because such actions appear to immitate or stoop to the Tyranids' level of impurity.
    ----------
    Quote Originally Posted by The Forgotten Savior View Post

    If you list your play style, im sure we can point you to an existing chapter or help make your own.
    I do not want to make my own founding chapter, as I want to have the founding chapter be one of the known originals.

    Some of the traits of my Chapter does match up with the Imperial Fists (the Betcher's gland for one), however, I am not sure I want my chapter to be stubborn like the Imperial Fists.

    My playing style is that I use a mix of different units. I like Tactical Squads for their versatility. Assault Squads for their faster movement and close combat ability. There is rarely a battle in which I do not include at least one of these units. I also like Devastator Squads for their ability to dish out serious firepower at a longer range than tactical squads. I also like Scouts (almost always with the majority of the squad being snipers) for their long range ability, move through cover, and general scout advantages. Other units I deploy are Veterans (now Sternguard and Vanguard), Terminators, and Predators. I stay away from bikes and land speeders, as well as vindicators, whirlwinds, and land raiders (mainly because of $$). I have worked in how the chapter rarely uses these vehicles due to lack of resources. For the bikes and land-speeders, I have worked in the fluff how the Chapter disproves of their use outside of scouting, transportation, and patrols.

    As you can tell, there is notable deviation in the Chapter's adherence to the Codex Astartes, but in my opinion not as deviant as say Space Wolves or Blood Angels.
    Last edited by grailknighthero; July 13th, 2009 at 05:46.

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    Well im not sure what your asking now. So you dont want to make your own chapter but you want to find an existing 1st founding legion that matches your fluff/play style? You cant make fluff for an original founding legion like your mutation fluff, you cant do that to a first founding chapter since their history is well documented. Im not sure why you wouldn't want to make your own chapter, and if you do just say they look similar or are from the ultramarines gene stock since those mutations affect fluff not gameplay.

    If you cant find any chapter that might look/feel like what your looking for in the codex, you could go to lexicanum but i would just make my own chapter in your case and say they have ultramarine geneseed since many chapters exist but nothing is known about them.
    Last edited by The Forgotten Savior; July 13th, 2009 at 06:52. Reason: edit add on
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Forgotten Savior View Post
    Well im not sure what your asking now. So you dont want to make your own chapter but you want to find an existing 1st founding legion that matches your fluff/play style? You cant make fluff for an original founding legion like your mutation fluff, you cant do that to a first founding chapter since their history is well documented. Im not sure why you wouldn't want to make your own chapter, and if you do just say they look similar or are from the ultramarines gene stock since those mutations affect fluff not gameplay.

    If you cant find any chapter that might look/feel like what your looking for in the codex, you could go to lexicanum but i would just make my own chapter in your case and say they have ultramarine geneseed since many chapters exist but nothing is known about them.

    No, I want to make my own chapter. I think I misunderstood you. I took one of your statements that you would help me create a first founding chapter. Now that I reread your post, I cant find anything that made me think that. Maybe it was that you said you would point to an existing chapter.

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    In the Ultra marines omnibus there is a story were the an Ultramarines captain meets with a successor chapter to request their aid.This chapter the mortifactors have abandoned most of the codex and have returned to ancestor worship going as far as turning their fortress monastery in a giant morgue with the skeletal remains of their former brothers intered in honour within.Further more they had rites concerned with blood consumption and their chaplain was able to enter into a state that enabled him after the blood drinking to commune with their space marine ancestors and receive accurate auguries from their spirits.

    Needles to say the Ultramarine captain got really sick for abandoning the codex practices and turning to what he saw as even chaos taint and they almost exchanged blows.

    Perhaps this is geene seed deviation perhaps not but as you see not even the most stable chapters successors have their variations.As it is stated in the story those changes took effect when the chapter took their new homeworld and the new recruits addopted the primitive rituals.

    If you read all this before i told you this chapter decended from Ultra marines would you have thought so?
    As you see it is not uncommon to have deviations all you need is a good fluffy reason.
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    Thanks, I remember that now, it is from Warriors of Ultramar. It has been a few years since I read that book.

    So, I guess I can go ahead with my current plans. Thanks all for your help. If I have any more questions regarding Ultramarine and Space Marine fluff, Ill post them here so I dont clutter up the forum with posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grailknighthero View Post
    Thanks, I remember that now, it is from Warriors of Ultramar. It has been a few years since I read that book.

    So, I guess I can go ahead with my current plans. Thanks all for your help. If I have any more questions regarding Ultramarine and Space Marine fluff, Ill post them here so I dont clutter up the forum with posts.
    Glad to be of assistance
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    There isn't much problem with the changes you propose; in fact, the Betcher's gland is useless while the Marine is wearing a helmet anyway. The one real problem is having a superior oolitic kidney--Marines don't have their own research institutions and surely lack the knowledge of genetic engineering such an improvement would require. Better to say that it's simply overactive, the way the Soul Drinkers' omophagea was overactive.
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