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Since this isn't army fluff, I didn't think this belonged in the fluff section. Ergo, I put it here. Now, what bothers me is the following line from the Wiki entry on Cypher:Wait...what?"This claim has only recently surfaced and is supported by the coincidental activities regarding the recent release of the Warhammer 40'000 5th Edition rulebook in which the background states that the Emperor's Throne has malfunctioned and is in an irreparable state."So, assuming that this is true and not a rumour by Chaos worshipping scum, what would be the implications of this? I assume that this will be fixed, because, let's face it, there'll be 2 major armies (as well as minor codices) going down the drain if the Emperor dies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I see it. So what would the solution be?"..the Emperor's Throne has malfunctioned and is in an irreparable state."
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I asked about this exact topic in the forums before.
First off, the line you are quoting is accurate. It's in the hardcover version of the 5th edition rulebook. I don't recall the page offhand, but there's a section where they have a basic "timeline" of significant events in the history of the Imperium (Great Crusade begins, Horus Heresy era begins, Horus defeated, Second Founding, etc), and in one of the dated entries, that line appears.
What's even more ominous, and I forget whether it's in that "timeline" or elsewhere in the BRB's fluff, but one (or more? I forget) of the Eldar Farseers has seen the immediate future, and knows that humanity is in for a jolt of some kind. I don't know what, but some sort of catastrophe is going to shatter/split/otherwise rend the Imperium as we know it.
Now, what does this ultimately mean? Well, unfortunately it could mean a lot, or nothing at all. As one person pointed out in that past thread, "It's always five minutes to midnight in the 40k world." The "Grim darkness of the far future" has always been a not-so-pleasant place, and it would be like GW to perpetually hang a Sword of Damocles over the Imperium's proverbial head as part of that grim mood, forever promising that something bad will PROBABLY happen... someday. That may be all there is to this, and the comment about the throne is just a part of that. After all, even IF the throne is breaking down, it hasn't broken down YET, and there's no rule that says it WILL within the next 10,000 years or whatnot.
In that same spirit, the Eldar have been a "dying" race for longer than anyone can measure, suggesting that GW likes to portray them as such, even though logic might suggest that they should certainly be "dead" by now.
As you pointed out, if GW really does have some sort of fluffy plan for allowing the throne to break down, well, the consequences have been discussed ad nauseum in other fluff threads, so I won't go into it here. Suffice it to say, it would require a virtually simultaneous re-write of ALL the Imperium-related codices at least (and perhaps the Necron, Chaos and others), and perhaps the creation of NEW codieces (maybe a Mechanicus codex? I dunno), and I just don't see that happening. GW can barely keep up with the books it has out NOW. I can't imagine them taking on what would be a gargantuan task as "killing" the Emperor for good.
Of course, I could be wrong...
You present a valid point. More than one non-Imperium army would be influenced. Chaos Space Marines would lose a battle cry at best, and their reason for continued existance at worst. The Necron would be very happy, since the Emperor is basically the best Psyker we have to offer, maybe even more powerful than Eldar ones (though that is debatable).
However, don't you think that there would be good coming from it? That is to say, from a fluff standpoint. Assuming that the Starchild theory is right, the Emperor's death would benefit humanity greatly, ushering in a new era of peace and prosperity, the works.
Something I picked up while using the google search machine:So I guess that this means that Cypher is also a pawn in the resolving of the whole Emperor situation? After all, we don't know who or what spirits him away every time he seems about to die. For all we know, there's another power at work, other than the Emperor or Chaos. BUT if Cypher works for the forces of good, I have another interesting view...Taken from Dr. Wik I. (Ibrahim, I've been told) Pedia's entry on Cypher:Originally Posted by Itkovian, over at Warpstone FluxMight that not mean that it might be the Lion behind Cypher's continued existance? If he is slated to become the Emperor's successor, we can assume that he has immense psychic powers, too. Now, I am not up to date on the Primarchs, but it isn't that much of a stretch to think that, as he was made of the same flesh as the Emperor, he would have the potentional of the Emperor. So, who's to say that the Lion has not woken up yet? The secret was that he is still alive, only sleeping, in the Rock.The Emperor may indeed perish, but if the Star Child Theory is enacted, according to the 1st Edition Codex: Dark Angels, the Lion may return, and take position as the new Emperor of the Galaxy, the first Primarch of all Chapters, to bring union to the human inhabitants of the Galaxy.
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First off, I'm moving this to 40k Fluff so better minds than mine can weigh in.
Huh, I may have to dig up a copy of the 1st Ed DA codex (although if you mean Angels of Death, I have it already)...
The StarChild is the 'soul' of the Emperor, unable to reincarnate due to the fact he's still 'alive' in the Golden Throne. Technically when the throne fails, he'll die properly, and then be reincarnated when humanity needs him the most (explained as when humanity's hope-o-meter fills up) in order to smack the crap outta Chaos.
So while the wee minions of the Imperium might be bricking themselves (with good reason, as the Emperor's death will end the Astronomicon) we out in third-party land can be happy with the idea!
But yeah as Canew says there's no timescale involved for any of it so we could be looking at some fluff for Warhammer 991000.
The Lion wasn't psychic, was he? Preternaturally intelligent and calculating yes, psychic no. Which means he'd never be able to power the astronomicon, and probably not keep the Throne Webway gate sealed. The only primarch who might have been able to do it was Magnus, and he's not exactly the Imperium's best mate.
Bearing in mind that in the Alpha Legion novels in the Horus Heresy series a very powerful psyker said the Emperor was as far above him as he is above a blunt (non-psyker), we're not going to be replacing him anytime soon.
Deltamarines (SM) W:10 D:1 L:3
Hunter Cadre Xeon'a (Tau) W:5 D:2 L:1
Ok, so I am a little confused about the Webway entrance in the Throneroom. If I understand correctly, the Golden Throne is what stops that particular gate from opening. But why is this a bad thing? I know that the Emperor had plans for the Webway, for one. However, the fact that it is sealed cannot attract much animosity from the Eldar, can it? Or is it the idea that some parts of the Webway are Chaos infested?
On that notion, here's some interesting tidbit I happened upon during my search for more information about the Golden Throne:A fifth God of Chaos? This raises interesting questions. If Mankind would be the Fifth Death (I like this term), Eldar were the Fourth. But then, which races caused the previous 3 to come into existance?[...]without the Emperor, Mankind will fall to Chaos like the Eldar. Such an event would create a fifth God of Chaos and create another Eye of Terror, one which would span the entire Imperium. They seek to prevent this by bringing about the rebirth of the Emperor.
Back to my original post, though.
Here's one more quote which agrees with the line on the timescale:Are there specific facts that say the Lion (I refuse to use his real name, so unimaginative) is NOT a psyker? Of course, Magnus would be the best choice but yeah, he's out of the picture. For now, I think that the Lion is the best choice. He is being kept alive by the Watchers in the Dark. As such, he is the only loyalist Primarch in any state to lead the Imperium. Ferrus Manus is dead, so is Sanguinius and Dorn. Of unconfirmed nature are the states of Khan, Russ, Guilliman, Vulkan and the oh-so-original Corax with a quote from Edar Allan Poe as his last words. There are two Primarchs I would have pegged for becoming Emperor, that are more than missing: The Lion and Guilliman. The Lion is sleeping and Guilliman is recovering, so it is said. At least they know where he is. Better than Khan or Russ, with their disappearances."In the last year of M41, tech-priests discovered failures in the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that are far beyond their ability to repair"
As for the Void Dragon...
I've always seen him as the Omnissiah that the Mechanicus worships and that he is right in the middle of Imperium territory: Mars. What's on Mars again? Only the home of the Mechanicus. Who visited Mars and survived surprisingly well, facing firepower in the home of the Imperium? Necron. Who do the Necron worship? The C'Tan. Which C'Tan is the master of technology? The Void Dragon. And the circle is round.
Case in point: the Horus Heresy series. It describes how the "Dragon of Mars" had "Drunk the heart of stars" and was "Worshipped as a God". Ring any bells?
Last edited by ISwearImHim; September 18th, 2009 at 17:50.
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I think that GW will milk at least one more edition out of this situation before moving on to the "time of ending" or whatever the age they're in is called. They want to keep their world running, so unless they are about to start up a new era in 40k or a new game altogether, nothing huge is going to change. The Emperor (who even the Chaos gods fear) dying would be an example of something huge.
Terminator armor going critical would be like Three Mile Island only very, VERY angry, and carrying a hammer.
LO rules in a nutshell: Don't post unit costs, be polite, rep posts containing of win.
The "Webway" isn't the same as the Eldar Webway. Apparently, the Emperor's big task after uniting everyone (which the Horus Heresy interrupted) was to be creating another kind of "webway" which, like the Eldar's version, would allow interstellar travel for humans without need of the Warp. The Golden Throne's location was supposed to be the first entrance.
Unfortunately, I think, something went wrong in building it. I THINK the Emperor was interrupted in building it, which inadvertently drew unwanted attention from the Warp, and became a potential new hole through which chaos could pour into the Imperium. Somebody (I forget who) was placed on the throne to keep the hole shut until the Emperor could finish dealing with this silly heresy rebellion business. Just after the "death" of the Emperor, the poor sap who was sitting on the throne literally crumbled to dust from the effort of keeping back the Warp, so they put the Emperor on the throne to "plug the hole" as it were.
The rest is history.
In truth, there are supposedly a lot more than four Chaos gods, but all the rest of them are "lesser" beings that don't have the might of the Big Four(tm). The "other three" just happened to claw their way to the top of the theocratic pecking order. They then laid the smackdown on any other God that could come close to touching them, and reigned for many years as "King of the Hill" as it were.
They might have smacked down Slaanesh too, had she not been so powerful. Instead, she takes a place at their sides (so to speak).
Hmm...information I can find seems to indicate that it was Malcador the Sigilite, founder of the Administratum, that sat on the Throne while the Horus Heresy lasted. The person who was originally going to take the Emperor's seat was...Magnus.
Also, for the Webway, all information indicates that it was the Eldar Webway that the Emperor was tapping in to, not a Webway of the Imperium. And it makes sense. Why would you make something new if you can adapt something pre-existing? Ok, logic does not always apply to the far grim future, but the idea's there.Since we don't know what kind of lifespan the Emperor would have had without needing the Throne, there's no way what he would've done to alleviate the problems plaguing the Imperium. However, I believe that, had the Heresy not occurred, he would've succesfully connected to the Eldar Webway and made the Warp obsolete, thus also putting the Astronomican into retirement. Of course, since the Heresy was the turning point of the Imperium, a significant event, the plans of the Emperor went awry. So, we are still stick with the question: What happens if the Throne breaks? Because I do believe that GW is setting the stage for a new campaign, bigger than we've seen before.At the instant of Malcador's death, the Emperor awoke from his coma - Malcador had saved a last kernel of strength and passed it on to the Emperor so he could give his servants their final orders.
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