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Before I even start writing fluffs, I must ask this crucial question.
I want to make an Imperial Guard army that has 'gone Chaos'.
No, I'm not looking to make my Guardsmen have leadership 9 or WS/BS of 4.
The CLOSEST way I came up with (which I believe is acceptable by other players) was
Daemonhunters Rulebook features 2 ways to incorporate the Daemonhunters into army I already own.
a. Have the Inquisitor Lord 'join' the pre-existing army in his/her quest.
-> results in pre-existing army with 2nd HQ and 0-1 Elites selection from Daemonhunters army list.
b. Have the pre-existing army under Inquisitor Lord's forces as 'inducted'.
-> results in Daemonhunters army list with some pre-existing army units.
I chose Method A.
Inquisitor Lord (I.L.) utilizing Daemonhost is reverse-corrupted in his attempt to control the Chaos for the cause of the Imperium. The daemon THEN corrupts the Commander (C.O.) of the detachment of the Guards under Inquisitor Lord's disposal. Imperial Guard detachment believes in the I.L., and follows the C.O. (who himself is corrupted AND is receiving orders from the corrupted I.L.'s orders) without question.
If I read and understood the Lore correctly, regular Guards are conditioned to obey the C.O.'s orders without question at all times.
What got me in trouble is the Commissars.
1. Commissars > C.O. at all times. In addition, C.O.'s actions are questionable.
2. Commissars = Separate Jurisdiction from the Guards, and has rights to summary execute the questionable C.O.
3. C.O. = Receives Orders from the I.L. who's orders were to perform 'the questionable actions'.
4. Commissariat > Inquisition? Commissariat < Inquisition?
5. Whatever the answer on 4 is, would Commissar still execute the questionable C.O. and go against the I.L.?
Would the Commissars obey the I.L. and JOIN the questionable actions, resulting them to become 'fallen'?
I'd like to keep the Commissars, but if it heavily violates the lore/fluff/background, I'll stick to Imperium side (despite my want).
Alternate option I thought of was using regular Space Marines army list added with Inquisitor Lord and 0-1 Elite substitution. This one would be 'seen as Renegade', but 'their productivity has been excellent, so they have not yet been placed on death'. Whether they're really Renegades and not Chaos, or newly-converted into Chaos, I have not yet chosen. Plus, this option didn't seem viable to me since I didn't want to join the vast ranks of Space Marines players.
Thanks to any who shines the light on the issue.
|==========[UPDATE BENEATH]=====>[TAKE|01]<=====[OUTDATED ABOVE]==========|
So, here's the update on the questions, after hearing the answers, along with update on the fluff.
Rules from [Codex: Daemonhunters] used, as shown in Page 21.
"~Daemonhunters units can be included as allies in any of the following Codex armies~ Imperial Guard and its variants ~ and the total number of Daemonhunters unit choices may not exceed the following: 0-1 HQ choice, 0-1 Elite choice, 0-2 Troops choices, 0-1 Fast Attack choice Note that Heavy Support may not be chosen (from [Codex: Daemonhunters]). Any compulsory choices (such as the one HQ and two Troops choices in a standard misision) must be fulfilled from the 'parent' list and not the Daemonhunters list."
With the data above...
Inquisitor Lord Samiel, and his henchmen joins the force of Regimental Commander Solir Reute (Word 'irresolute' scrambled) in order to hunt down Daemons. Samiel, turned radical recently after finding out the uses for daemonhosts, decides to make daemonhosts of his own. Forcing Reute out of his planet in Eastern Fringe into more quiet, yet dangerous place along with the access to Reute's regiment, he finds Daemon of Slaanesh named Mercurite (words 'mercurial' and 'infinite' combined) and easily subdues it. Upon his attempt to make a daemonhost, Samiel decides to make a weapon that could subdue or destroy failed daemonhost prospects as a safety device. Through machinations of Tzeentch, the process goes horribly wrong and essence of Mercurite, the greater daemon of Slaanesh, manages to take control of Samiel, granting him 'blessings' of Slaanesh regardless the cause. Reute, who was guarding the area of ritual personally was also taken over by Mercurite's beauty. Followers of Slaanesh and Tzeentch started to take over Samiel's retinue as Mercurite assumed full control of its' new, corporeal body. Eventually, a set-up meeting initiated by Reute and Samiel resulted in commissars to be killed and replaced by heretics in guise of the killed commissars. Only noticeable 'difference' lies within the pink pupils and slight purple shade around the eyes.
...is the story so far.
Still valid? Or is it way off? And do excuse grammatical errors if they're present.
I've spoken English for about 6 years now, so still learning.
Home language is Korean, if anyone would like to know.
Suggestions/Criticisms are welcomed so long as they are constructive.
Last edited by Samiel; March 18th, 2010 at 08:57. Reason: Added Questions.
When a Guard regiment falls to chaos, the first ones to go are the Commissars. Either sent on a suicide mission, or they simply take enemy fire a suspiciously long way from any actual enemies.
"The sergeant major asked me what my job is. I told him it's to do what I am told. He gave me a medal. I like the Imperial Guard."
"Innocentia Probat Nihil"
The =][= have an unlimited remit in the Imperium. Only the Astartes and the Mechanicus are near level with them, but generally go along with what they say. A lowly commissar wouldn't stand a chance against a Lord Inq. But Stradius is correct, commissars get fragged when a regiment falls, much like the traitor legions smushed the Chaplains first (other than the Word Bearers) in the Heresy.
If you want Commissars, maybe write in something about the Inq Lord getting the regiment's ones killed and then organising the replacements, who are acolytes of his under the thrall of chaos. Then they can execute anyone who starts to understand whats actually going on?
If you've read Blood Pact, Gaunt goes head to head with the Inquizitor throughout the whole book.
Commisar's, IG, Astartes, Mechanicus, Titan Legios, And even the different parts of the Inquizition butt heads from time to time.
No one is aboce the other's rules, it all depends on the situation. Normaly the =][= card trumps the others, but they get fragged from time to time too.
Read Eisenhorn, he's a very respected inquizitor, yet one of the most notorious witchhunters is sent after him (whom Eisenhorn eventualy kills).
In the soul drinkers novel "Chapter War" the inquizitor is about kicked off the Howling Griffons battle barge for disagreements.
Most of the fluff revolving around Commisars in a Renigade guard army leans towards "they dont exist" but then again, in the Vraks fluff, the renegade guard had "enforcers" there to "motivate" their men to fight the invading imperials. About the same as the commisars.
Yes, I did deep-strike your sister...
Necrons : W-8 D-3 L-7 (Sleeping in their TombFoam, waiting for a new codex)
Chaos Forces (CSM/CD): W-42 D-19 L-28
Apocalypse Games : W-4 D-0 L-1 (4 Titans, Brass Scorp, 3 Baneblades, 2 Bombers, 3 Fighters, and a Partrage in a Pear Tree)
Well, its good that I have found you, for I have played every list in the history of the game as normal humans falling to the lure of chaos. I have played..
Cultists in last CSM Codex/ White Dwarf update
Lost and the Damned (This one being the one I love the most.)
Witch Hunters Adversarie
Daemon Hunter Adversaries
Renegades and Heretics
Servants of Slaughter
Servants of Decay
And finally a normal Guard list with Chaos fluff, like you army.
Like the other guys are saying, get rid of the fanatics first. Commissars tend to wake up in the middle of the night to a mysterious las-pistol shoved down their throat then having a few shots yanked off. Next is the Priest, if you are doing a full swing to chaos, then these guys are replaced with actually Chaos fanatics who actually know something about worshiping the greater gods. You can still use the rules for a Commissars in your list, just use different models for them and give them a story reason. For example, for all for all of the Forge World list, they are replaced by Enforcers, men loyal to the evil cause who execute anyone who has second thoughts about thinking twice about worshiping the dark gods.
So take it from a heretic,everything is better when you join our side.
The selection process for Inquisitors is unbelievably demanding, the selection process for Commisars is much less so.. Therefore, on an average level, it stands to reason that Inquisitors would be better than Commissars. In reality though, they're trained for almost opposite roles (a Commisar is a morale officer who is expected to enforce doctrine, an Inquisitor is more like a military intelligence specialist and investigator whose role is to think outside the box and use classified information responsibly). The Inquisition wins out because, well, when it comes to strategy would you rather have the guy who lives and breathes propaganda or the guy with the actual real information making the decisions?
When it comes to the influence of Inquisitors.. There are two ranks in the Inquisition, and even Inquisitor Lords don't technically have any power to order Inquisitors around. Smart Inquisitors learn that there are some people in the organization you should listen to, but theoretically their freedom is unlimited. It takes a group of Inquisitors to formally bring an Inquisitor to justice, so generally justice is quite informal and bloody. In short, Inquisitors fight each other all the time over ideological differences and conflicting goals. The game 'Inquisitor' is based on this premise.
Space marines also have a unique status in the Imperium because they still theoretically have a mandate from the Emperor himself, which equals the Inquisitorial mandate. Power relations between the two are thus incredibly blurry, especially since raising the military force to oppose a space marine chapter is a massive undertaking for any Inquisitor, and one which exposes him to judgement by his peers. Inquisitors cannot directly command space marines to do anything, just as space marines can't command anyone else. If an Inquisitor pushes a chapter too hard and gets killed for it, it's likely his peers will put it down to stupidity.. with a few exceptions they're generally smart, pragmatic people, not foaming idealists.
Everyone else, including a Commissar, is fair game.. The Inquisition has a mandate from the Emperor which is passed down from Inquisitor to acolyte. The word of an Inquisitor is equal to the word of the Emperor. Disobeying it is thus an abandonment of the Imperial cause, and the ultimate treason, especially for someone who is meant to be as devoted as a Commissar. That's not to say people don't do it and generally Inquisitors are pragmatic enough to find amicable solutions, but if needs be they can call in staggering ammounts of power (or supersoldier shapeshifting assassins with phase blades) to bring disobedient to heel.
I personally don't like rogue Inquisitors as a fluff thing, as I think they're overused.. People who are specially selected from a pool of millions of potential candidates to handle the responsibility of an Inquisitor aren't going to fail very often. Sure, they will do, but it seems every other piece of fluff has a rogue Inquisitor or two in it. A possessed Inquisitor is an interesting idea though, and one I'm not sure I've seen done.
As others have mentioned, I'd replace the Commisars with Chaos fanatics of some description whose unquestioning devotion to the dark gods means they fill the same role as a Commissar.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; March 18th, 2010 at 02:43.
UPDATED the initial post.
In Cain's Last Stand Commissar Cain mentions that some Commissars do go to Chaos willingly. So it isn't completely necessary to frag them. However, most are fragged whenever there is a chance because of troopers just don't like them.
"The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?"
And Cain may also be a good example of why some of the Commissars could turn... in order to save their own skin. Getting those that aren't complete fanatics (rare but possible) and you could have some nicely mercenary people to help the new people in charge. Granted they may not be too enamoured with Chaos, but it's a possible answer.