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I'm considering making a chapter (legion: raven guard) but I want better reasons for them to fight the Imperium. I also want to incorporate allies into this.
So, I was thinking that a (female) Inquisitor, who had suffered trauma at the hands of the Space Marines when she was younger, inducted forces for a battle (like they do) and then somehow convinced them to join her. She is loyal to the Imperium but wants to change its ways (the Inquisition try to execute her when they discover this and she tricks them into thinking they've suceeded).
The problem is, how would she convince the chapter to obey her? Shes pychic so maybe she brainwashes them. She is also on neutral terms with the Eldar (if thats fluffy) so maybe they help? I just don't know what is feasible when talking about space marines.
If this sounds too far-fetched I'll just play the Chapter as a more normal one.
If not, who would this army be able to ally to? I was thinking that she could be on neutral terms with eldar/tau (as shes not constantly trying to eradicate them), ally with the Imperium (pretend to be a normal chapter), fight the Imperium (pretend to be more chaosy), fight eldar and tau (disagree with their particular rules and dislike all the "bad" races as usual.
(the bit on "brainwashing" the marines is the hardest part. Can marines minds be wiped?)
Well, your Inquisitor is obviously a Radical, which has precedence. No Inquisitor can 'induct' Marines, but they can ask for their help, so that's probable. Mindwiping, well, Marines can be affected by psychic attacks and powers, but they do have some pretty strong conditioning and mental barriers already, so that part is a little tricky. Especially when you'll be working against and hunted by the Imperium, because, let's face it, you kind of notice when an entire Chapter disappears or falls under the sway of someone who is supposed to be dead.
And the Marines will have a hard time working with any eldar.
Yes thanks for feedback so quickly.
The marines don't have too know about the Eldar (inquistor(ess?) just wanders off and comes back with loads of cool stuff but it would be cooler to have them together.
You find my problem with making the marines fight for her and not the Imperium. However, weirdly I was planning her to still be loyal to the Emperor so maybe that would affect things.
Forgot to mention that the marine force is thought dead as well as she "kidnapped" them when defending against tyranids and daemons and stuff (the world got hit by a whole hive fleet like Maccrage but my guys just aren't ultramarines).
Oh and BTW, I'm fine with ehr being a bit fanatical and killing all the marines in power/the inquisition who are with her who would report on her if it helps.
p.s. sorry for replying so soon, I feel its important to clarify these things. I will actually let multiple people post before I reply again).
Marine's aren't idiots, they'd wonder where all the new xenotech was coming from.
She can still be loyal, no problems there, she'd just end up being a Radical.
As for the Marine force being dead, I can see her maybe rescuing the chapter's remnants at the 11th hour, but until you figure out the brainwashing bit, they'd just be grateful and then move on, likely to find some last, meaningful way to die.
Or, to flex my own imagination, here's a situation:
-said inquisitor, being a radical and wanting to reform the Imperium somehow (maybe get rid of the Ecclesiarchy), uses xeno tech to lure a strand of Hive Fleet Leviathan to your chapter's planet. The Marines call for help, the closest being Imperial Guard and a Sisters of Battle convent. Radical inquisitor intercepts message to Sisters, preventing them from recieving it, and sends back a fake message denying Marines help and saying that the hive fleet is the Emperor punishing them for their sins.
-fast forward to war against hive fleet, not going so well, with eight of the ten battle companies effectively wiped out, along with the majority of the Imperial Guard. Inquisitor shows up at the last second, right as the Chapter fortress is breached, and rescues remaining Marines (say, one captain and 125 Marines). World is lost, bombarded with cyclonic torpedoes to destroy hive fleet.
-Marines now want revenge for percieved 'betrayal' by the Sisters, and Radical Inquisitor brings them to the convent. Astartes attack and wipe out Sisters, but captain dies during attack (ie, female Inquisitor betrays and kills him on the planet). Inquisitor then uses her influence to take control of Marines, and basically directs them on a crusade against all Ecclesiarchy outposts.
Good thanks. I like that most of the chapter was wiped out, as it means I can start small, also I can run loads of hqs or something because they're more likely to survive.
I'll probably use that as a base and work from there. As well as sisters, another chapter will also "reject" their call for help because of a rule in adeptus astartes (there'll be one somewhere that fits) and so they want to abolish that too.
Using xenotech to bring the hive fleet is a bit hard in my mind. If anyone prefall eldar (its after the fall now) or necrons (like they'll help anyone) are the only ones who could have a chance at doing it. However, I rememer reading somewhere that tyranids are drawn to high warp/pyschic/biomaterial presence, so maybe if she uses technology to enchance the appearance of her mind in the warp and so draw the fleet.
Marines would still not fully trust her though. Ways to solve this that I can think at the moment are:
1. They're quite primitive and they decide the important people by whos the best at fighting and so she applies (but as you said marines aren't stupid and don't really think like this).
2. Pyschicly "brainwash" (still not sure if this is possible)
4. Obey me or I kill you???
Another thing: The chapter can still recruit as it has gene-banks on its fortress monastery located on it battlebarge. However, without support from the adepticus (mechanicus? which ever one deals with cloning gene-seed) the chapter would eventually die out. I need a way to rectify this. Options are:
1. Mechanicus(/whatever) friend. She'll have this anyway but maybe he knows/has access to the technology
2. Xenos help (I'm sure the eldar could do it).
Thanks for help so far (and sorry I broke my promise on not posting for a while, I quite liked your idea, I'll be good from now on.)
Have lots of techmarines and the Master of the Forge survive, they can then maintain almost everything, as well as produce some of the smaller stuff (ie, bolter shells). And current eldar are at the same tech level as prefall eldar, they aren't losing their tech knowhow like the Imperium is.
Personally, I don't think that brainwashing is necessary, just have the inquisitor be very manipulative. Heck, she saved the Marines and guided them to the people who 'betrayed' them, why wouldn't they trust her? Especially since all command superiors are now gone.
Are you kidding? No Emperor-respecting Inquisitor is going to lure a Hive Fleet to a well-populated sector and sabotage the Imperium's defenses in order to beat a Marine Chapter into slavery through mass casualties, and then do an unsanctioned Exterminatus to destroy the evidence while framing the other branches of the Imperial government, all while pretending to be dead. That's not Radicalism; that's Abbadon with his A-team on a streak of good luck.Originally Posted by Sancraer
Why is this Inquisitor so desperate to have pet Space Marines, anyway? The only reasons I can think of are fomenting rebellion against the Emperor and precision strikes to further weaken and destabilize the Imperium, both of which are far beyond the pale even for a Radical. And why the favorable attitudes towards xenos? The Eldar in particular have a virulent hatred of humanity and even the Tau understand that their best chance for survival is a future that has a lot fewer humans in it than the present.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
Why not just have the radical Inquisitor seek out and gain the services of a renegade Marine chapter? There's a fair few running around who aren't totally evil, like the Blood Knights or Soul Drinkers.
For extra twisty goodness, you could have it that she was the one who declared them renegades centuries ago when she was an idealistic puritan.
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What I mean is that shes in it for the Imperium as an idea. With humans being protected and dominant. She just disagrees with the methods. She wants her own chapter to test her ideas, and see if the Imperium could function in this way. She then sets up a trap that will benefit the Imperium anyway (so a few marines and guard die, but so do lots of tyranids from the hive fleet, and exterminatus removes all the biomass for them, at the lost of a single world, I'm sure things like this have been done before, however I'm not a fluff master so...). Also, shes an inquisitor, I thought they could call ecterminatus, she'd sanction herself to do it.
The chapter would be renegadish anyway, there decendants of the Raven Guard and as the RG do, they don't really follow orders properly, although they do follow the main points of the codex:astartes. I heard that the Raven Guard are also the legion that is more about helping the people and building a future than others.
No change in the Imperium: well its worth a try, but she obviously won't ever suceed (1. because shes mine not GWs. 2. We've been in the same century for a long time, and so nothing much happens).
She isn't trying to destabilise the Imperium, shes trying to aid it in a fashion more to her liking.
Eldar don't hate humans, they just think they're stupid. I'm sure if one actually showed some signs of creativity, thought and logic they could at worst put up with her.
Tau only dislike humans because the Imperium attacked them when they became a threat, the humans started it, and if one was different, they again could put up with her.
Thanks for the comments, they've really helped me put some thought into this character.