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For anyone that doesn't know, the Blood Angels found some STC data holding the specs for the Baal Predator and overcharged engines, but instead of handing it over to the Mechanicus so it could be put into use by the whole Imperium, they kept it for themselves.
Later during the war for Armageddon the Techmarine Lucifer was able to improve the overcharged engines making them more reliable, creating the Lucifer engines.
This is why the Blood Angels are the only marine army with fast tanks and the Baal.
The thing is, as far as I know, it's never realy been explained why they did this. Why would they break the Emperors standing orders reguarding the recovery of all STC material and withhold this stuff from their fellow marines?
Does anyone know if there is actuley a fluff explination for this, and if so, what is it?
The Blood Angels encourage a variety of extracurricular activities in their Marines, which is why they have a reputation for great art, music, architecture and literature as well as being super-soldiers. In marketing terms, this is to strengthen their "angelic" image, but a good fan wank is that it helps to suppress the Black Rage. Their oddly long life spans means that they tend to have enough free time (over centuries) to produce some really amazing stuff, like the Tower of Amareo, the death masks and their pretty suits of armour.
One side-effect of this is that the Blood Angels tend to have a large number of what you'd call independent artificers, being basically techmarines who've merged an artistic drive with their technological training. One thing everyone should know about most artists is that they're pretty self-absorbed, whether out of egotism or inspiration. So when an artistically minded Blood Angels techmarine comes across something like an miniturised meltagun or blueprints to integrate assault cannons onto a Predator chassis, he doesn't think "I must share this with everyone for greater benefit!" He thinks "I can make something really awesome out of this." Then he does it, and the result are hand-crafted infernus pistols and Baal predators. It's pure selfishness: his own creative impulse is overriding what should be his duty as a Marine and a techmagus. And because he's an artist, he's not going to bear seeing his "creation" taken away, torn apart and mass-produced for every idiot to use.
This isn't really something GW planned out from the start: it's sort of evolved out of the fluff. Blood Angels originally got inferno pistols and Baals because GW wanted to give them something cool and unique to stand out, and then GW needed to explain exactly why Blood Angels have them and no-one else does.
It's also worth mentioning that the Adeptus Mechanicus aren't the most egalitarian of organisations either...their process of adapting new tech into the system is to take it away and study it for centuries or even millennia, during which it will be illegal to actually use. They might not even approve it in the end - they could easily decide that Baal predators are too radical and forbid their use entirely. The Blood Angels probably rationalised it as "If we hand this over to the Mechanicus, we won't be able to use it for hundreds of years, or maybe never. It's better that we keep it, pimp it out and put it to some practical use rather than handing it over to a cabal of tech-fetishists about a billion miles away from the front line."
It's not like the Techpriests share all their knowledge, either. There's buckets of archaeotech that they hoard away from the rest of the Imperium on the basis that the silly idiots outside of the Cult will misuse or (God forbid) modify it. It's really a case of selfish artists arguing with selfish engineers about who gets to play with the new toys.
(I should also mention that in 3rd edition and before, overcharged engines were BA-only not because they were kept secret, but because everyone outside the Blood Angels considered them too insanely dangerous to use. It's only in 5th that their downside was removed and they were retconned into a new model that Techmarine Lucifer invented.)
Last edited by ze_poodle; October 4th, 2010 at 07:33.
The above poster = Totally a member of the Fluff Masters Clan. Click here for fluff pwnage.
Come, sons of LO! Kneel before Poodle!
Mr_Wayne: "Some people believe that the World Eaters do not field any ranged weaponry. Those people often die at a distance."
The accords between the Mechanicus and the Astartes were something set up be the Emperor himself, would they realy brush them of so casualy?It's pure selfishness: his own creative impulse is overriding what should be his duty as a Marine and a techmagus.But they did distribute the Baal STC among the other BA chapters, later when the Lucifer engins were developed they were shared too. They even shared them with the Knights of Blood (before they were declared renegade as far as I know) and the Flesh Tarers. Those nutters can have it but they still didn't share with the other chapters.And because he's an artist, he's not going to bear seeing his "creation" taken away, torn apart and mass-produced for every idiot to use.Sharing the data with the Mechanicus doesn't mean they have to give it up, and the Redeemer and Crusader Landraider designs were shared amongst the other chapters and put into wide use long before the Mechanicus ever pulled they thumbs out and gave them the stamp of approval.The Blood Angels probably rationalised it as "If we hand this over to the Mechanicus, we won't be able to use it for hundreds of years, or maybe never.
Even if the Mechanicus did give them shit about using un-approved tech, the Astartes are fully atnonmous armies of super soilders, it's not like they could realy force them to stop using it.
Yeah, you did make a good point.I just think they should have made some fluff that actuley explains why.This isn't really something GW planned out from the start: it's sort of evolved out of the fluff. Blood Angels originally got inferno pistols and Baals because GW wanted to give them something cool and unique to stand out, and then GW needed to explain exactly why Blood Angels have them and no-one else does.
I was wondering if they actuley did and I just didn't know about it. All that stuff you mentioned, yeah, it pretty much says all that in the codex but it doesn't realy explain the decision.
What can I say, a gaping plot hole like that just buggs me.
Well the LR variants are modified versions of existing patterns, the fast engines were part of an STC - so they'd have needed to give the mechanicus the STC, which means as they can't just be made from existing engines the BA would not have access to them for a significant period.
Plus it is considered to be a war trophy, so keeping it is a matter of honour.
And how honourable is it to break the Emperors orders and **** over your brother marines by witholding a seriously killy tank design and superior engines?
It's just a massive plot hole I can't believe they left unexplained.
Edit: I didn't bleep out that word, funny, I didn't know LO did that. Hugh
Last edited by SkyDog; October 4th, 2010 at 13:06.
The moral of this story is that even genetically engineered supersoldiers with loyalty-enhancing hypno-conditioning can be selfish gits at times.
And bear in mind originally the engines weren't that good, perhaps nobody else noticed Lucifer had fixed them
"Oh, you wanna play? C'mon, lets see if those stupid engines can hold out without over heating or exploding."
"Try and keep up junior."
The light truns green, the engines roar and the tracks screetch.
The Blood Angels are also on the edge of an abyss. They are increasingly bonkers because of the black rage and they have a habit of sometimes drinking the blood of other people. They also see themselves as angelic which is part of them becoming more self-absorbed. Because of this behaviour and attitude they are less squeamish about breaking the rules. If people like the Inquisition knew how crazy some of them were because of the black rage withholding some tech wouldn't seem that bad. For lack of a better way of putting it from this point of view the Blood Angels are grading on a curve.
Last edited by Leech; October 4th, 2010 at 16:28.
I thought GW probably did have a fluff explination that I just didn't know about but it looks like they don't. It's looking like they just left it as a plot hole with only partial explinations. Oh well.