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I am finally catching up on the Horus Heresy book series. For those that haven't read it, in Legion, Alpharius recieved a vision from a group of xenos called the Cabal about possible results of the Horus Heresy. Oddly, what actually happened wasn't one of the futures they saw. They saw 2 possible futures:
1: The Emperor wins, defeats the forces of chaos, but the human race essentially becomes a cancer to the galaxy, gradually decaying over eons until finally dying out.
2: Horus wins, Chaos takes over the galaxy, but due to the self-destructive nature of chaos, after a short time it essentially self destructs. The human race dies out, and without their influence on the warp and all their emotions, the Chaos Gods more or less die out or at least become impotent.
This actually was a great deal of why Alpharius supported Horus, seeing the destruction of the human race as better than what the humans would do to the rest of the galaxy if the empreror won.
As I see it, the first outcome is what has come to pass, although I'm not sure you could say the Emperor truly won.
My question is, if Abaddon were to truly succeed in one of his black crusades, as unlikely as that is, would it be possible for the second outcome to still be triggered?
I suppose, at this point, there is also the question of would the galaxy truly be better off without the humans at this particular point in time? The Tyranids are moving into the known galaxy, the Necrons and their C'Tan are waking up. No other race really has the forces to take them on.
If chaos ever achieved a dominant status it could so easiley go that way. It's just a result of chaos' over indulgent, excessive nature. Without restraint chaos could so easiley push the human race to the point of no return.
Many people might say "The chaos gods need us, without our influence they'd be nothing. Why would they go that far?" But they don't have any choice in the matter, they are what thay are. They are the ID given form, their extreme, all or nothing nature is the result of what they are and if they get the chance they'd over do it to the point of extinction. They arn't idiots, I'm shure they's see it coming too, but they wouldn't be able to help themselves.By virtue of what it is, chaos could never hold together any kind of united front. Chaos is just to..... Well, chaotic!I suppose, at this point, there is also the question of would the galaxy truly be better off without the humans at this particular point in time? The Tyranids are moving into the known galaxy, the Necrons and their C'Tan are waking up. No other race really has the forces to take them on.
There are currently three forces in this galaxy capible (have a chance in hell) of defeating the tyranids and necrons, the Imperium, the orks and chaos. The problem is, chaos and the orks are in the same boat, they're both... Chaotic. They could never hold the kind of united front needed to overcome the nids or crons.
Last edited by SkyDog; January 8th, 2011 at 08:00.
*Sigh* tis a grim future all right. Pity they cant just make a bug spray for nids, Weed killer for orks or bribe necrons into peace with a whole load of WD40 (I'm sure with no old creaky joints they wouldn't be so cranky). Sometimes its hard to inject humour into such bleak times, although probably doesn't help that I haven't got a good sense of humour in the first place.
At anyrate Sky dogs right everythings just to chaotic however there is still a chance on the Eldar front actually. If by some wisdom they don't seem to want follow they combine all parts of the avatar including the dark eldar pieces (temporary alliance for both their sakes) and claim back the couple of craftwords trapped in the eye (even at great life loss) then Khaine could be re born and kill us some chaos gods, which would free up the Imperium alot to deal with the other threats more efficiently. or at least that's how it goes in some of the fluff I read. The only reason slannesh (or however its spelled) got the upper hand on khaine is because she was just born. Anyway I'd like to see that but doubt that would ever happen. Seems very in the realm of not going to happen. More likely either nids would win I think but given how games workshop works everything would be left on a twilight hour if given long enough and the only way we will ever really know the end is if GW goes out of business someday in the distant future.
Given enough time and the evolutionary chain as its going over time the Human race will become very Eldarish themselves (Psychic potential and such) so they might learn from the Eldars mistakes and Bring prosperous times to the galaxy..... before getting board and taking over another one or creating something that kills them.
Anyway that's my 2 cents (Which I believe is some American thing meaning my opinion)
"Reached under the bed and pulled out a Converse and a beer, I appear to of developed the miraculous power to turn shoes into beer!.... or beer into shoes." - Fallen Autarch after St. Patricks day.
I think that if Chaos were to win it would still exist. I think that Chaos would split the galaxy into 4, for each chaos god and maintain populations and worshippers on planets and what not. The Eye of Terror has people living in it, all sworn to chaos but still living in it. The chaos gods could not really kill any of eachother because killing one would leave you weak and open to attack from another so the 4 gods would keep eachother in check. They would likely have wars with eachother and fight for worlds but would survive.
“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist.”
Granted, I haven't read it since it was new, but I had thought there were some fairly vague comments between Alpharius and Omegon before they turned their guns on the Imperial Army. I'm gonna have to go back and check, but I thought it hinted that they might be joining Horus to maybe make sure he doesn't win.
That would then explain why neither vision came to be. (Or some of both, depending on how you look at it.)
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
They are the base, primal drives that exist in the minds of living creatures.
Khorne is hate and violence. He is the pure, primal, killer instinct that drives us to fight and survive. Khorne will fight and kill and kill and fight then kill some more. That's what he is and he couldn't change it even if he wanted to.
The same thing is true of the other gods. The chaos gods are our base primal drives without restraint, taken to their excessive extremes.It's not like they just hang out in the Eye like it's a social club. There are 3 main reasons that anyone is able to survive for long periods of time in the Eye.The Eye of Terror has people living in it, all sworn to chaos but still living in it.
1, Time/space warp freakyness. Many of the people and groups that have survived in the Eye for a long time realy havn't. Time tends to get a bit freaky in the Eye, a ship might enter the Eye and a thousand years might pass outside but only a week has gone buy for the ship, it's a bit random.
2, Groups are able to survive because they have a good supply of new recruits. Traitors and renegades often flee to the Eye to escape the Imperum. When a spacemarine is coming to put his boot up your ass you don't realy have anything to loose, just take your chances in the Eye.
3, The only people that realy survive and prosper in the Eye are 100% bad-ass, adamantium-balls, take no prisoners, mother Fu%kers!
Last edited by SkyDog; January 9th, 2011 at 03:02.
Neither of the Cabal's visions would ever come to pass, Chaos is neither linked solely to or reliant upon humanity, and neither result of the Heresy would be enough to wipe mankind from the stars. If the Imperium were to be removed it would at that point have greatly diminished Chaos' power, but there are still enough Xenos and non Imperial worlds that have turned to Chaos to sustain it. Only the Nids and Necrons pose any threat to Chaos.
The Cabal was at best working to defeat a juggernaut of a foe while dealing a blow to Chaos and at worst merely attempting to cripple the Imperium and ensure their own safety.
Veni Vidi Variant
I came, I saw, I got a different type of Leman Russ.
The spikey ones go faster.
98% of the teen population has smoked weed, the other 2% went straight to crack.
Saga of the Ages. Click it.
Rules for grenades are on page 72 of the rulebook.
There is no question that without somthing to hold it back the forces of chaos would self destruct, it's the nature of the beast. Chaos is defined by it's extreme, all or nothing, self-destructive nature.
In the 41st melinnium there is no such thing as paranoia, the universe realy is out to get you!
If chaos gained control and eventuley killed such a large percentage of humanity the scraps left over would be easy pickings. I'm not saying the entire human race would be wiped out but the only ones left would be the lucky few that were able to avoid attention from anything that wanted to kill them.I don't think anyone ever implyed that the forces of chaos would be destroyed by this, it would just weaken them.If the Imperium were to be removed it would at that point have greatly diminished Chaos' power, but there are still enough Xenos and non Imperial worlds that have turned to Chaos to sustain it.
Accept for Slanesh, the chaos gods rely largley on humans for their power and strentgh. The Orks are the most numerous inteligent race in the galaxy but they (for the most part) share a common 'spiritule' vision.
Their will, their base drives and primal instincts flow through the warp just like ours, but because of their common vision they formed the Ork gods, Gork and Mork. The orks collective will and psychic energy gave birth to Gork and Mork much the same way the Eldar gave birth to Slanesh and the orks energy feeds their gods in much the same way the Eldar feed Slanesh.
Since the orks psychic energy already feeds their own gods, the other gods and spirits in the warp would have to settle for scraps.
As most of the Eldars psychic energy (their verry souls if they're not careful) flows directly to slanesh (like it or not) this would also leave little for the others to feed on.
With such a huge chunk of their 'food suply' removed the chaos gods would be left impotant and the influence of chaos as a whole would be greatly reduced.