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O mighty Lords and Ladies of the Fluff Forum,
heed my call for help and lent me your wisdom as I Brother Razhiel, your humble servant, beg thee for help.
right, enough awkward gibberish.
I'm in the process of making my own chapter, but I'm having some problems finding answers or reason for certain things about my chapter which I really do want to be in it, because I'm an stubborn bastard and want it my way. :p
Basically I'm going for the whole Spec Ops feel, A Chapter specialised in guerilla warfare, hit and run, infiltration, intel gathering, surgical strikes, you all probably know the deal.
my army will (probably) consist of Scouts, backed by Devastators and Assault Marines , Land Speeders, and a Dreadnought for when the going gets though and who fluff wise will mainly be a counsellor of some sort for the Chapter Master.
The thing is, I find it hard to explain why a Chapter would exist purely for this, most chapters seem to me to be a jack of all trades but that's something I don't like at all (it just sounds so..over powered)
Having a chapter that employs different methods of warfare then seems to be written in the Codex, their organisation is much different (the Scouts probably being the most experienced members of the Chapter instead of the initiates as they are, combat wise, the pillars on which the Chapter rests figuratively speaking.) Or at least that's what I'm thinking but my "Chapter creating experience" isn't great :p
Geneseed wise I'm thinking of Raven Guard, closely resembles them combat doctrine wise, I don't mind the white skin and black hair.
Or are there any other (suprising) suggestions? maybe Dark Angels to add some mystery and "ooohhhh"-ness
Last edited by Brother Razhiel; January 21st, 2012 at 20:16.
It sounds like you're after a successor Chapter to the Alpha Legion and ostensibly to counter their activities, as everyone sent against them has had their arses handed to them every time because they can't get "CHAAAAARGE!" out of their heads. That might be a good start.
You should have characters that allow Infil and Flank, Elites that Teleport, Jump Pack or Drop Pod, job-specific Scouts (all ranged squad with cloaks or assault with shotguns for example), Scout Bikes and Landspeeder Storm. Terminators would be useful for the killing blow but aren't particularly stealthy and may not fit in. Vanguard or plain Assault Marines are always good and you can attach characters to these, turning five men into six maniacs.
I personally like to use Flanking Scouts and Storms either together or separately as my Storms have Heavy Flamers (due to their low BS). These are quite good for turning up, templating their target, sending the Scout assault squad in then covering for them. They're not tough at all but can do some damage and they are not to be underestimated as transports.
Drop armies are great but slightly risky, but Blood Angels are best for this, and a successor Chapter can do some proper damage. It's all up to you of course but there are one or two ideas to start you off.
Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
Dark Angels would be good candidates for this indeed, if you think of this chapter as having been started to hunt down the Fallen even more rigorously than their Dark Angel kin.
Another choice would be Raven Guard, of course. Alpha Legion are the masters of Hit and Run, but there are no chapters created from their Geneseed, since they went to Chaos during the Heresy. The Night Lords are also similar to the Alpha Legion, in that they use lightning attacks to spread fear and terror among their enemies and then move on. During the Heresy they refused to join with Horus, but were cast out by the Emperor and his Loyalists because they made rather... questionable... use of civilians in their strategies. Now they fight on as Renegades who hate both sides of the coin.
There are plenty of reasons that they might operate this way. The Raven Guard for example were left stranded behind enemy lines for a very long time, and had to make use of what they had. Now, even though they can maintain full supplies, they still fight with this hit-and-run survivalism in mind.
The Crimson Fists likely resorted to that kind of strategy towards the end of their battle on Ryn's World, when their planet was ultimately destroyed by Orcs. The codex talks about a Land Raider of theirs that went on a lengthy killing spree, launching raids against the Orcs until it eventually ran out of fuel and ammo and was overrun.
The White Scars are a hit-and-run chapter, because the world their Primarch grew up on was essentially a Mongol/Hun culture. They never stayed in one place, they were mounted raiders themselves, and they passed on this ideal of warfare to the Primarch, who passed it on to his chapter.
The well-roundedness of the marine chapters comes from their having 1000 men who are all equipped with the best gear they can be provided for the job at hand. It sounds overpowered because, well, it is. They are the elite killing machines of the Empire, most mortal men have never seen them, and those who have practically worship them as angels. The 40k rules don't represent even a fraction of the Space Marine's actual capabilities on the field, in order to do so, you would almost have to field an army of Space Marine Captains, each wearing Artificer Armor, and giving them all Feel No Pain. (there's a "Movie Marines" armylist out there somewhere, intended to give the feel of a real space marine in battle, but you typically only get 1 squad for your whole army)
If you want to go against the Codex Astartes, you can, but I'd give them a successor that has already done the same, or give them a reason to have done this in the past. Perhaps you play a Space Wolf army that attacked into the Eye of Terror in hopes of tracking down the missing 13thCo. They were forced to drop the search when they realized that they were about to suffer the same fate, but their fellow Space Wolves didn't want to take them back in because of the chance they were tainted, and instead of killing them, sent them to form a chapter dedicated to intercepting the 13th Company where ever they were found.
I think the phrase 'Spec Ops' is confusing you. All Marines are too rare and valuable for normal conflicts. Instead, find a reason for justifying the specific units you like. Is the Chapter under-strength, with few veterans but plenty of Scouts? Do they face off against Eldar over Maiden worlds and therefore use Devastators instead of static defences? Or do they hunt Ork Waaghs to stop them before they reach Imperial worlds, using Speeders to cover ground quickly and safely? Chapters near large war zones will emphasize surgical strikes that allow the IG to make progress, whereas Chapters in remote areas will use more tanks and temporary fortifications.Basically I'm going for the whole Spec Ops feel, A Chapter specialised in guerilla warfare, hit and run, infiltration, intel gathering, surgical strikes, you all probably know the deal.
As for the actual army, Scout-themed lists do best when supporting Terminators or Drop Pods. Which do you prefer? You can justify their reduced statline by saying they spend more time training for hostile environments, wildlife and such while their power-armored brothers do endless weapon drills.You can always dedicate a company or two for a specific role without locking the entire Chapter into that doctrine. Even the Ultramarines do it with their Cassius-led Tyranid Hunters.most chapters seem to me to be a jack of all trades but that's something I don't like at all
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
Thanks for the help, all of you!
I'm torn between making them a Dark Angels successor, they seem to be awesome but my fluff knowledge on them is well.. nothing..(something about a terrible secret if I recall correctly).
Or an Raven Guard successor, who had some bad luck and are now low on equipment and veteran member, I was thinking of it being a Tombworld and that the Necron that had awakened gave them a proper beating and left them with no choice but to declare Exterminatus on the planet and get, what was left of the Chapter, away from there.
I'll write some piece of fluff of the Raven Guard idea and post it here, you can bash it to bits then .
again, thank you all for your help.
The only downside with the Raven Guard idea, is that's basically how the chapter was founded anyways - they were left behind on an Orc-infested world and left to die. Years later they found Marines still living there, keeping up the fight.
The fluff for the Dark Angels isn't too involved. Back during the Heresy their Primarch, Lion el Johnson 'The Lion', was trying to choose who to side with. He was hoping that either the Heretics or the Loyalists would gain a clear edge, and he'd cast his die with them. This means that they sat out most of the Heresy. Within the chapter, the Angels couldn't take any more waiting, and so a civil-war broke out over which side to pick. Those Angels who wanted to side with Chaos were defeated, driven out, and became the Fallen, but not before they could destroy the DA homeworld. The remaining Dark Angels tried to get Lionel's sword back to Terra, broken during the conflict (this is why their symbol is a winged sword) and rather than be assigned a penitent crusade, they covered up the Fallen, called it 'casualties' and have hunted them alone and in secret ever since.
Whoops, my idea would basically copy the Raven Guard and just rename them.
So, the robe wearing greenies are quite awesome, at least thats how it sounds.
Might make them a DA successor indeed, and because they are so focussed on the hunt they prefer to keep a mobile force instead of one compromised of sluggish, heavy gear.
And it would be difficult to maintain a full vehicle bay when you're roaming the galaxy looking for The Fallen and thus they have dont have many predators/land raiders and resort mainly to drop pods and Land Speeders.
Am I getting the idea or am I looking at it the wrong way?
Edit: my chapters main colour will be white (bleached bone) with a blue of some sort. Wouldn't it make my chapter resemble the Deathwing to much?
Last edited by Brother Razhiel; January 23rd, 2012 at 04:22.
Bleached Bone is definitely the Deathwing's schtick. The Angels of Redemtion (I think that's their chapter name) use a bi-colored Bone/Green armor as well. Ravenwing are usually the bikers/fast-attack version of the army. The idea is that the Ravenwing go and hunt down the Fallen, then signal back to the Deathwing that they've found them. The termies teleport down and kill/capture the Fallen, and then move on. Usually the Fallen attach themselves to other Chaos armies as advisors or to achieve some ulterior motive.
If you want to go with a bone color scheme, I'd say go for it - as I said, the DA already have successors who use that color in their armor, it's not necessarily a Deathwing-Only color for them.
Would my Chapter, as a successor, have to follow the Dark Angel organisation? so Ravenwing, Deathwing etc.
Or can I leave those out? (I want to use the regular Codex: Space Marines and not Codex: Dark Angels)
I've repped you all for the effort you all have taken to help me. It probably won't make much of a difference as I'm new, but I hope you all appreciate the gesture.
I've borrowed the Dark Angel codex from a friend and I'm reading it now for more fluff knowledge. Anything you guys can tell me? and are there more sources except lexicanum?
once again, my thanks.
Lexicanum is probably your best resource for finding out information about a particular chapter, and their Codex of course. Remember - the Codex will always trump anything on Lexicanum, since Lex pulls their stuff from Black Library and other Codexes aside from the one in question. They're trustworthy though, I had to go there to get fluff for my Exorcists chapter.
You wouldn't have to keep the Deathwing or Ravenwing organization as part of your Chapter, although almost every chapter's First Company is equipped with Terminator armor. If I recall, I believe that the Second Company is usually a bike company, but don't quote me on that. Even the Dark Angels maintain most of their chapter as standard Tactical Companies, and follow the Codex Astartes fairly closely, so you could say that your chapter follows the Dark Angels methods of having Deathwing and Ravenwing type troops, but you wouldn't have to field a themed army on the table.