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While browsing the threads here, I found one that made me question something.
In the particular thread a person wanted his chapter to have close ties with the Imperial Guard.
Eventually the topic shifted slightly towards "how do the Astartes regard the IG".
Some interesting things were said and it sparked my curiosity to try and deep digger into this.
But what are your thoughts? Are the IG dead weight in the eyes of the Astartes? And how do they view normal humans? What do they think of those they protect? Do Marines mingle (spelling?) With regular humans a lot? Any books or (online) articles regarding this topic?
Sorry for grammar or spelling errors, I'm on my mobile phone using Forum Runner so it's a bit chaotic.
From what I've read it depends upon the Chapter, and the general time period. I know that the Salamanders have been pointed out in particular to dwell amongst regular humans and be particularly protective of them.
I read in The fall of Damnos that officials in Ultramar are involved in the selecting of the new chapter master, though to what extent wasn't made clear. Space Marines also sometimes govern planets themselves and would need a high degree of interaction with humans to do so.
Some chapters do regard normal humans a weak and helpless, often underestimating them. Hubris and pride have always been the weak spots of the Space Marines, even the traitors. Marines may often view humans poorly but their view of them is not always correct.
Some like humans and might even form a bond of some sort with them
and others see them more as a liability and try to keep them out of their own way as much as possible? makes sense. but what drives a Chapter towards their given view regarding humans? after all, they all once were human. Why despise now what you have once been yourself?
Fall of Damnos seems like a good read. might buy it. another other Black Library novels worth checking out? preferably Dark Angels stuff.
The main reason is weakness. Most Chapters have a serious warrior ethos and therefore no respect for non-combatants. It doesn't help that so many Chapters recruit from Deathworlds, either. Lots of Marines knew only killing even before their selection. If you aren't a predator then you're prey, right? Or a vulture.Why despise now what you have once been yourself?
The secondary reason is insulation. Marine recruits are taken at an early age and spend the rest of their life in a very structured, artificial environment. That alone makes it hard to get along with outsiders. Again, the situation is made worse by Marines' being roughly three feet taller than human-average. How well would a Greek- and Latin-speaking Goliath get along with some villagers in rural China? He isn't going to blend in; he can't even use their furniture. As a character in the movie "Eraser" put it: "Who's the tree trunk?"
The tertiary reason is mobility. Marines don't stay long in any one culture. They have no time to make friends who probably won't survive the next week and will never be seen again if they do. Shore leave? Not in the Astartes.
A few Chapters make the effort to be civil and even friendly to normal humans but it really is an effort. Like any two groups of people, they need to spend time together and have common interests outside of work. The humans must not be intimidated and the Marines must show respect. One idea is church attendance. If devout Marines and humans worship at the same place then it isn't hard to imagine some friendly discussions and shared meals. Parties (a la Space Wolves) might work, too, if the humans don't mind the occasional bone fracture. Salamanders do it by practicing the mundane trade of blacksmithing. My own Chapter plays poker and other card games. (They're Drop Pod specialists and have a lot of time to kill when they're strapped in and waiting for a deployment order. It's an inspiring sight to see the Pods landing, the doors blowing off, the Death Angels leaping out in a cloud of playing cards...)
You might try the book "Flight of the Eisenstein". It shows a variety of Marine attitudes towards normals.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
Awesome, thanks a lot.
It seems to make sense, Marines just don't know how to act..normal... combined with the warrior culture it's easy to see why there often is an awkward relationship between Marines and Normals, like you said.
I'll make sure to get that novel.
side note: The sheer awesomeness of the "Playing Card Entry" should give them a 2+ invulnerable save in-game.
Intrepid got all the good parts down. I just wanted to add another book suggestion to the pile: Helsreach. Just finished that one for the second time, and it was a better read than a lot of the Black Library books, though about Black Templar. I did like the personality-style he did for his space marines, as in many books I think they tend to make them a bit "too human". Plus the occasional switch to first person really helps you see the world from the space marine perspective.
Though not official canon i like to view the whole matter under the lenses of the dawn of war series because you see a couple of view points on the subject.
At first we have Angelos interaction with colonel Brom in what appears to be a show of arrogance even from the first scene.And then he changes his stance (quite possibly after he sees the guardsmen dying in droves in desperate defense actions and during the siege of Magna Bonum). He even goes to call them 'Warriors of the emperor'. But we should not forget that even though he is impressed by them he sees them as a tool too: "Its by his mandate a will that i elevate into holy battle".
Then you have Avitus considering them nothing but mere maggots and worthless scum(though he is prejudiced) but even he softness up a bit when he sees sergeant Merric and his troops fighting eye to eye with the nids. And lets not forget Thadeus monologue when he fully realizes that he is a space marine and refers to humans as 'them'. He understands that he is not one of 'them' but something else.
Now all of those views come from a single chapter.One that has interaction with humans non the less(after all they have a subsector under their control).
Now lets think of Armaggedon.The SW duke it out with the inquisition in order to save the regiments and population of armageddon. On the other hand you have a specific chapter(cant remember the name) that goes as far as firing whirlwinds into a prison camp in order to kill orks. And the templars carring more for the strategic value of a location rather than ten or twenty thousand of 'mere' humans.
And lets not forget the Unforgiven chapters,no qualms of abandoning entire campaigns in order to persecute their agenda...
Clearly marines consider themselves superior to humans BUT,ultimately it depends both on chapter and individual how they view the case.And how much they remember of the fact that they were created to serve mankind.
Praise be to the Emperor!!
The previous posts have the general idea but here is some further information...
The Space Wolves and Ultramarines use humans to crew their star-ships and to arm them before battle. Other marines use Servitors. (Chapter Approved and another source that i can't remember)
Salamanders still live with their families after they become space marines. (per chapter approved)
Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.
As for some more book possibilities, Battle for the Fang is a good one. The SW as mentioned before use humans for a lot of roles still, like defense of the fang. It has perspective from the SW looking at the humans and a female guardsmen's view on the SW around her. Also maybe Salvation's Reach that newest Guant's Ghosts. Don't think this is a spoiler but her goes. Has 3 marines one White Scar, one Silver Skull and an Iron Snake. There are a few times in the book when they are seen interacting with the Ghosts and even have little respect for Guant right away (yet he is a known hero and has +possible spoiler+ killed CSM's before)
Repainting Orks not sure how many points yet
Warriors of Chaos shelved until further notice