God's - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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Thread: God's

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    There have been alot of threads about the existence/creation/origin/destiny of the 40k gods.

    First of all any fluff gained from obscure net sites/old editions/kids in local stores/rambling prophets is suspect and probably not true. The most recent editions of the rulebook and codex are the surest source of fluff. GW licenced novels are acceptable but remember it was an outsider who wrote the book, not a GW employee [in most cases].

    I'll make a point about Fantasy first. In Fantasy there is no doubt that there are only four real Gods [the Old Ones are well and truely gone, never to return]. The Chaos Gods don't have any natural enemies as such. They exist in many forms [ie Khaine and Ulric for Khorne]. They recieve the most worship from the tribes of the North where they are also at their strongest, so they naturaly give most of their support to the Northern tribes. The Norse/Kurgan etc are the favoured of Chaos, but not the only ones who are ruled by/follow the Gods.

    40K is largely the same. The Gods are created by concious and subconcious thought and emotion. Anger for Khorne, pleasure for Slaanesh, despair for Nurgle and hope for Tzeentch. Worship and belief gives them a big boost. The Gods do not fully take sides, they exist only to watch their own plans. They naturally support those who worship them and support their ideals most. The God's main desire is to see slaughter and gain souls. The Gods' main aim is to have souls sold or sacraficed to them, it makes them stronger. The Chaos Gods have always existed in peoples minds, just not as actual beings untill they were unleashed [ie slaanesh during the Fall, when there was enough excess created by the depraved eldar for his awakening]. A few notes about various Gods:

    Gork is the orky version of Khorne

    Mork is the orky version of Tzeentch, representing a savage, animalistic cunning

    Khaine is the Eldar form of Khorne, though more controlled and subtle, as the eldar are to humans.

    I don't know enough about the other Eldar Gods. I expect the Laughing God is a distant form of Tzeentch.

    The Emperor is not a form of any of the four Gods. He is a psyker so powerful he is nearly as strong as a God but he is not a God like the Four.

    As with the Hivemind, it has near godlike power but is not a God.

    The C'Tan are a different type of God to the Four, they exist in the material world instead of the Warp. A theory is that they are material incarnations of the Four. Representing an opostite of the Four's aspects.
    Destroyer and Nurgle - Both death gods but Nurgle death is slow, from within and organic while Destroyer death is imediate and from without.
    Deciever and Tzeentch - Both decieve but Tzeentch actualy changes things while the Deciever only decieves people, he never actualy changes the truth, just the way people see it.
    I don't know enough about the Outsider and the Dragon.



    I'd welcome any corrections or aditions. The mods should pin the finnished article to clear up any God related questions.

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    Senior Member Carcaroth's Avatar
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    Gork and Mork are NOT aspects of the runinous four they are seperate entities altogethor created from the minds of the orks. also in fantasy the gods like Ulric, Ursus etc and the elven gods exsist all the same as the chaos gods and are not aspects of them. they are just 'disconnected' from the material plain for the most part by the immense power boost chaos got from the collapsed polar gates.
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    Same goes for the Eldar gods.

    Khaine is the Eldar God of War and Battle, and should not be compared to the ruthless slaughter that Khorne worshipers do.

    If you fight for Khaine when you are at war, then he will help you with guideing your blade, your shot and lots of other things.

    While Khorne just want skulls for his throne.

    /Cheers

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    In WHFB:

    There is Khorne, the essence of all violence, hate, rage, bloodshed, warriors, wars etc. It has many forms:

    Khar - the norse version who is the most powerfull, usualy refered to as Khorne. He is the beserker skulls and blood god. He is the one Khorne is usualy associated with.

    Gork - Orcy version without the blood or skulls, even less sophisticated like the orcs are less sophisticated than humans.

    Khaine - He is the elven god of war. In the case of dark elves he is the god of cruel and delicate murder, as the dark elves are cruel and delicate. For the high elves he represents their sophisticated and elegant way of fighting.

    There are more, mostly not named and all less powerfull than the above three [four if you count Khaine as two gods].


    They often fight each other and often are opposed to each other, they do not share the same gains or conciousness but they are kind of the same thing. Almost like the personalities of a scizophrenic


    In the case of Gork:
    Khorne - a god created by the violent emotions of humans
    Gork - a god created by the violent emotions of orcs
    Apart from one being green and the other being pink, they are almost the same, they are created by the same thing and share the same goals
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    Dude, there's no way Gork is Khorne, simply because of the fact that orks don't have the warp registration necessary to be useful to Khorne. If anything Gork is more like the C'tan in that he's a real-world version of a warp-world god.

    What if the Dragon and the Outsider are Gork and Mork?
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    No, No, NO.

    1. The C'Tan are NOT material aspects of the Chaos Gods, or Gork and Mork.
    2. The Laughing God is NOT Tzeentch.
    3. And so on for most of the comparisons made so far.

    4. There are three types of god in 40k:
    i) Warp Based (eg Chaos Gods)
    ii) Extremely powerful material realm energy based lifeforms (C'Tan)
    iii) Racial memory of the Old Ones (Which would lead to type i in turn.
    See 5.)

    5. GODS IN THE WARP:
    There is no firm dividing line between Daemons and Warp Gods. the only real difference is magnitude. There are more than 4 independent Chaos Gods, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh are just the best known.
    The Eldar Gods are also Warp Based gods, but they are not aspects of the Chaos Gods. Most of the Eldar Gods are dead or fragmented.
    The Emperor was a genetically perfect Human psyker of immense power. His soul is hiding in the Warp, gradually gaining power from the concentrated worship of the Human Race. He is becoming an actual god, but this would not happen in the timeframe of the game's fluff. The wealth of fluff on the Star Child, Sensei, et al is no longer official and can be discounted.

    6. Gork and Mork are either Warp Based gods (and if so, very powerful due to the sheer number of Orks in the Galaxy), or a racial memory of the Old Ones. I have seen arguments for both viewpoints, and have not been able to decide myself.
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    gork and mork, come on, they were just some grots that saved a warboss's @$$ and were thus honoured and as the orks played their own version of telephone, the 2 becamoe mighty ork gods of legend...
    the real gork and mork were later eaten by some random nob.
    (yes i do live in my own little world, its a good thing... )

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    Originally posted by Corianis@Nov 22 2004, 11:21
    No, No, NO.

    1. The C'Tan are NOT material aspects of the Chaos Gods, or Gork and Mork.
    2. The Laughing God is NOT Tzeentch.
    3. And so on for most of the comparisons made so far.

    4. There are three types of god in 40k:
    i) Warp Based (eg Chaos Gods)
    ii) Extremely powerful material realm energy based lifeforms (C'Tan)
    iii) Racial memory of the Old Ones (Which would lead to type i in turn.
    See 5.)

    5. GODS IN THE WARP:
    There is no firm dividing line between Daemons and Warp Gods. the only real difference is magnitude. There are more than 4 independent Chaos Gods, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh are just the best known.
    The Eldar Gods are also Warp Based gods, but they are not aspects of the Chaos Gods. Most of the Eldar Gods are dead or fragmented.
    The Emperor was a genetically perfect Human psyker of immense power. His soul is hiding in the Warp, gradually gaining power from the concentrated worship of the Human Race. He is becoming an actual god, but this would not happen in the timeframe of the game's fluff. The wealth of fluff on the Star Child, Sensei, et al is no longer official and can be discounted.

    6. Gork and Mork are either Warp Based gods (and if so, very powerful due to the sheer number of Orks in the Galaxy), or a racial memory of the Old Ones. I have seen arguments for both viewpoints, and have not been able to decide myself.
    [snapback]254599[/snapback]
    It's nice to see that someone out there remembered the lesser gods of chaos... and also to discover the existence of someone who doesn't agree with that old Sensei/Star Child #*$! (swears for three hours). Sorry, I never liked that part of the fluff or how people still think of it as gospel, despite the fact that they're no more part of the official fluff than Malal or (unfortunately) Squats are now.
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    Originally posted by Corianis@Nov 22 2004, 11:21
    No, No, NO.

    1. The C'Tan are NOT material aspects of the Chaos Gods, or Gork and Mork.
    2. The Laughing God is NOT Tzeentch.
    3. And so on for most of the comparisons made so far.

    4. There are three types of god in 40k:
    i) Warp Based (eg Chaos Gods)
    ii) Extremely powerful material realm energy based lifeforms (C'Tan)
    iii) Racial memory of the Old Ones (Which would lead to type i in turn.
    See 5.)

    5. GODS IN THE WARP:
    There is no firm dividing line between Daemons and Warp Gods. the only real difference is magnitude. There are more than 4 independent Chaos Gods, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh are just the best known.
    The Eldar Gods are also Warp Based gods, but they are not aspects of the Chaos Gods. Most of the Eldar Gods are dead or fragmented.
    The Emperor was a genetically perfect Human psyker of immense power. His soul is hiding in the Warp, gradually gaining power from the concentrated worship of the Human Race. He is becoming an actual god, but this would not happen in the timeframe of the game's fluff. The wealth of fluff on the Star Child, Sensei, et al is no longer official and can be discounted.

    6. Gork and Mork are either Warp Based gods (and if so, very powerful due to the sheer number of Orks in the Galaxy), or a racial memory of the Old Ones. I have seen arguments for both viewpoints, and have not been able to decide myself.
    [snapback]254599[/snapback]
    It's nice to see that someone out there remembered the lesser gods of chaos... and also to discover the existence of someone who doesn't agree with that old Sensei/Star Child #*$! (swears for three hours). Sorry, I never liked that part of the fluff or how people still think of it as gospel, despite the fact that they're no more part of the official fluff than Malal or (unfortunately) Squats are now.

    Probably off topic, does anyone remember the Lost and the Damned/Slaves to Darkness Realms of Chaos Books? They had rules for creating your own chaos gods/daemons/warp entities- has anyone ever tried converting those rules (and the warband rules, path to glory/lost and the damned don't really cut it with me) to 4th ed?
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  11. #10
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    Originally posted by Unseen Lurker@Nov 22 2004, 00:54
    It's nice to see that someone out there remembered the lesser gods of chaos... and also to discover the existence of someone who doesn't agree with that old Sensei/Star Child #*$! (swears for three hours). Sorry, I never liked that part of the fluff or how people still think of it as gospel, despite the fact that they're no more part of the official fluff than Malal or (unfortunately) Squats are now.
    [snapback]254772[/snapback]
    Except that the Inquisitor Wars trilogy was re released and Malal has not even been mentioned since first edition. So here we have the Star Child fluff on one hand which was brought back (the stated purpose of the Emperor, once his body dies, to wage a war against the Chaos powers in an attempt to unify them and destroy the super entity, thus bringing together humanity's discordant psyche, has never changed) and the other Chaos Gods who have been utterly and completely disregarded.

    Gork and Mork are not "affiliates" of the Dark Gods but Khaine sure as hell is. That is one of the greatest ironies about the Eldar's fight against Chaos.

    The Emperor is more than just the most powerful psyker of all humanity, he is a God. But he cannot fully ascend into the warp until his body dies (which will not happen in the timeline of 40K). He is like what would happen if that bearded man from Nazareth (Can't remember his name right now) was held in stasis in his tomb, the ressurection never fully realized. The second coming of the Emperor though will not be physical, I would dare say that the energy being of the Emperor will become one with humanity's psyche. Humans will then also become energy (take that Einstein) and will ascend into the Supercontext.
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