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I decided to make this topic after reading another forum that shall remain nameless.
Am I the only one sick of reading fluff that is either ridiculously inaccurate or plain stupid? Im not having a go at peoples efforts or such, I'm only talking about people who insist on making ridiculous exagerated back stories or rehashing other peoples tired stories. So I doing a quick "rules topic", to give people an idea of not what to do.
Starting, heres my quick dos and don'ts.
1/Your chapter isn't the oldest in the imperium. They are'nt secretly the first founded chapter, the Dark Angels are, all the fluff says so. Don't rewrite the history for your convenience.
2/ Your chapter isn't the most loyal there has ever been to the Emperor. The Grey Knights are, all the fluff says so. Don't rewrite the history for your convenience.
3/ Your chapter aren't the Emperor's personal bodyguards. The Adeptus Custodes are, all the fluff says so. Don't....you get the idea.
4/ Chaos Tau. No
5/ Your chapter was cut off from the warp from the rest of your chapter for hundreds of years.....so was everyones else it seems. Anyone else actually not been cut off from the imperium by a warp storm/ship crash etc? This really has been done to death.
6/ Necron Gods that apparently control the Tyranids, the Tau, The Harlequins, The US Senate, The Girl Guides etc. Ok Necron players, can you stop trying to convince us a C'tan is behind EVERYTHING?
7/ Cypher is Cypher. He is not the Emperor. He is not Lion El Jonson. (told to me by a GW source himself for those who would argue)
8/ Female Space Marines. No. Space Marines must be male, the zygotes are keyed to male hormone types etc as stated in the fluff.
Anyone else care to add?
1+2+3. i agree totally
4. i support chaos tau as much as i support nazi ig. which is openly
5. not every chapter has ever been cut by a crash or warp storm, the original legions were not either. in this i defend my own fluff, but i dont look for excuses like that to disagree <_<
6. no comment
7. while cypher is clearly neither johnson or the emperor. some gw staff dont have a clue about what they tell you. some dont understand the rules, some dont understand the fluff. their all out their..
8. i dont know why you brought zygotes into this, they have to do with making babies not marines. marines to be merely get the geneseed and several organs but not much more.
i agree with some of your views but come on with some of this. keep making topics like this and youll run into trouble with more than other members...
Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
"The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
Member of the Fluff Masters Clan
I'm generally quite happy enough when someone bothers to think out fluff for their army that I'm not going to criticize them. In particular, yeah, the fluff says no female space marines but the conversion can look good and hey, the galaxy is a big, mysterious place.
The one thing I would like people who make fluff to keep in mind is: 1) In the Warhammer 40K universe, there aren't too many good guys. and 2) Less is more. Leave some unexplained story hooks in your army profile so that they can be filled out later. Or abandoned if they aren't good ideas.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on every one of your points. It seems to me like everyone wants their army to be the better than the official fluff makes them and to me that is just not right. People try to make their army perfect but they have to realize that its unrealistic and that flaws give an army its character.
And like JOHIRA! said, leaving some things unexplained is always a good idea, its thought provoking and fits in with the style of official fluff.
@ darkreever, I think he means geneseed when he said zygote because I do remember reading that SM geneseed keys only to male hormones which are in turn produced by the male zygote. I can see how he could make such a slip.
“ Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man. ” - Thomas Paine
Stop using the two founding legions who's names were stricken from the record as your chapter's progenitors. I know GW left them off the list for just that kind of situation (or in case they write themselves into a corner with their official fluff), but everyone and their mothers uses that. It's just as common as 1, 2, 3, and 5 on Addoran's list.
Loyal chapters created from the Traitor legions. There WERE no loyal chapters created from the Traitor legions, because when chapters were first made, the Traitors had already pissed on earth and fled. No "well, WE wanted to stay loyal to the Emperor despite the rest of the legion during traitor" - marines follow(ed) their own Primarchs as if they were gods. The next time I see a loyal chapter created from Emperor's Children, in particular, I think I might cry.
I agree with you on this one in essance, but just wanted to play Devils Advocate on the point....Originally posted by mEGALOMANIAC@Jan 5 2005, 06:48
Loyal chapters created from the Traitor legions. There WERE no loyal chapters created from the Traitor legions, because when chapters were first made, the Traitors had already pissed on earth and fled. No "well, WE wanted to stay loyal to the Emperor despite the rest of the legion during traitor" - marines follow(ed) their own Primarchs as if they were gods. The next time I see a loyal chapter created from Emperor's Children, in particular, I think I might cry.[snapback]293799[/snapback]
If half the DA's can fall to chaos and turn against their Primarch, why cant 100 members of a different legion stay loyal and fight against their corrupted Chaos Primarch?
I am always a little leery when I see someone setting out cardinal rules of fluff - especially for a setting that is as intrinsically open as 40k is, although there is definitely a lot of merit in the arguments presented in this topic.
When I read Addoran's original post I found myself thinking that a lot of his comments were related to originality, rather than cardinal rules of fluff. After all, there are no new stories. Its all been told before. Anyone interested in how far this line of tought actually goes can read Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces".
I would however agree with Addoran's comments about changing established fact. If something has been stated explicitly in GW's background material (and you can reference that explicit statement), then we must consider it cannon. That does not, however, preclude using the blurred areas and holes to creative advantage.
Also, remember that the Imperium is over 10.000 years old, and in that time a great deal of knowledge has been lost, supressed or just plain ignored. No-one (with the possible exception of the Emperor Himself) knows everything that goes on throughout the galaxy.
In the final analysis, it comes down to the objective of the fluff in question: if someone has a great idea about what actually happened to Leman Russ and can write up a way for old wolfie to get involved in a non-game breaking way, then by all means! But, by the same logic, if some is using fluff to justify putting all of the most powerful units in one army then they have so missed the point. ("Chaos can corrupt anything - so I'm gonna play with Marneus Calgar, Abaddon, 15 Warp Spiders, Grey Knight Terminators with Daemonic Strength, Nurgle-Tau Battlesuits and 8 Dreadnaughts with twin linked Demolisher cannons" kind of thing)
If you want to win the game using rules, you have to obey the rules as written(and that includes which units appear where and how many of them you can field).
But if you want to write some entertaining fluff to justify a creative and interesting army, then I'm all for it.
This is, after all creative hobby, not a game of chess.
My secret, shameful desire is a three Ordo army...
(I know I'm bad...)
this is a brilliant point in your post here that i wanted to reinforce.Originally posted by JOHIRA!@Jan 4 2005, 23:32
The one thing I would like people who make fluff to keep in mind is: 1) In the Warhammer 40K universe, there aren't too many good guys. and 2) Less is more. Leave some unexplained story hooks in your army profile so that they can be filled out later. Or abandoned if they aren't good ideas.[snapback]293773[/snapback]
i've been working on my own codex for a few weeks now, and inevitably at some point in your fluff writing, you're going to come up with something you're not 100% totally sure about and don't have access to enough resources to check that certain something.
this is a great way to get around that! just don't say! leave it as a mystery!
it may sound like a cop out, but if you're willing to massage it a bit, it can become a very useful, not to mention more interesting tool in your writer's arsenal.
obviously, if you over use this idea (or any other) it becomes tired and stupid, but used sparingly and wisely, it can create some real drama in your fluff, not to mention some larger reason for your chapter to be seeking something other than asses to kick.
We all carry on,
When our brothers in arms are gone.
So raise your glass high
For tomorrow we die,
And return from the ashes you call.
1. Agree hate when people go and do that,I think godpeople who want to make their guys seem superior to other SMs(Nazi marines)
2. y opinion,most chapters say it:Ultras ang Imperial fists have good arguments so I disagree.
4. dont see the reason why not,in a WD it shows chaos Tau and that was by GW!
5. nt see the problem
8. Dont do it for well known chapters but for chapters with a twist I cant see why.
Theres my rant about that.
Another thing to add,GW change it ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lifes a PC game, learn to play it or loose.
I would also like to add that your Force Commander is not the most reverred hero of the Imperium and cannot take down 500 Khornate Berzekers without so much as the paint flaking off his armour.
But seriously, if you're going to make fluff, think about the reality of the situation. Just because his stats are great in the game, it does not mean he is the ultimate killing machine. One good blow to the head from a Khornate Chainaxe and he would be down, which would inevitably happen.