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Okay, as of end of 3rd Ed, models in Terminator armour get an Invulnerable 5+ Save. This is attributed to the unique device on their shoulder, the Crux Terminatus. According to fluff, it is empowered by the Emperor as it contains bits of his power armour, which he ordered melted down and placed into the Crux as he lay dying after Horus dealt him a mortal blow. If this is so, then am I right to say that ONLY Loyalist Imperial Space Marine Terminator Armour would get it? Then why do Chaos Terminators have a 5+ Invulnerable Save as well?
Another thing, I understand that Chaos Space Marines have millenia of experience because they don't die of old age in the Eye Of Terror and can continue fighting for, like, ever, but they do nevertheless take losses like other conventional forces. So, how do they replace losses (by recruitment)? And why don't they have Scout Company's for newbie recruits then?
Shouldn't this be in the Army Fluff section? Anyway, I think that the 5+ Invul save that Terminators get is because they cost so freakin much. Fluff wise you could say that instead of the Emperor's armor chips being in the Chaos armor they could be blessed by the gods of chaos since only the best and most honored Chaos space marines would get it anyway.
From what I understand Fabius Bile can make new space marines for them. I am not sure why they don't have scouts but it proably has something to do with the warp energies, I mean if normal space marines can become mutated even in their ultra protective power armor I would think that the scouts would be turned into a pile of mutant mush pretty quick.
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Also, if you look at the fluff behind the Red Corsairs in White Dwarf (US 302), it seems that even in loyalist chapters, a few Marines can go foul. I loved all the pictures they've shown with their chapter markings etched out and the Corsair logo put in place. I geuss Chaos is a compelling force.
Why yes, this should be in the fluff forum.
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
It is possible that instead of the Emperors Armour, the one from Horus was used for the CSM Terminators. Or they are all blessed by the Chaos Gods.
The recruitment of new CSM is a little bit difficult to understand. Okay, Fabius Bile can create new ones, but as far as the fluff goes, he only gives them the geneseed and the technology. But can you imagine a horde of Khorne Berzerkes or Plague Marines to complete the long and complex task of creating new Marines? It takes over 10 years to do this, with a lot of surgery, rituals and training. The Alpha Legion and the Word Bearers maybe do it, but the rest of the CSM Legions seem to "chaotic" to have the patience in this matter.
they prefer the more "Instant SM Cooker", just a why is described in the novel Dead Sky Black Sun
There where Terminators and Terminator Honours before the Heresy wheren't there? The Imperials' symbols are special because there's pieces of the Emporer's armour in them , but the original traitors would still have the symbols on thier armour, just withouth the little bits of the Emperor's armour inside them. I guess thier stat increase could be explained by the favour of a chaos diety. I mean if they're good enough to have been Terminators before they turned traitor, they're certainly though enough to win favour.
As far as the recruiting, I think it's supposed to be understood that Chaos Marine numbers don't go down as fast as Imperial numbers do. Strange things happen in the Eye of Terror. Maybe some of them simply can't die, or others are brought back, or some may just not fight that much.Whatever the reasons the mortality rate of Imperial Marines is a bit higher,so there's not quite the same need to recruit. There are plenty of ways to get new marines though. I imagine the most common would be from Imperial Marines that abandone the Imperium. I mean it happens all the time,so that's probably a constent source of new troops. Also there's Fabius's Ye Olde Marine Shoppe floating somewhere in the Eye, so any Lord with enough rescources can order up a fresh batch from him any time. I'm sure some of the legions still recruit the old fashioned way. In the CSM codex there's a story about some guy who's planet was used as a recruiting planet by CSM, they used the exact same methods the Imperials do, and it's not impossible to get geneseed. You either get Fabius to make it,or steal it from the Imperials.
I guess the reason they don't have scout companies is because they don't adhere to the Codex Astartes. I'm not sure how scouts where trained Pre-Heresy, but scouts wheren't organised into specific scout companies untill ole' Blue Bob wrote up the codex and made everybody follow it. Also Chaos marines probably train differently. The Imperials make you serve as a scout so they can slowly and surely teach you the basics and then teach you the rest of what you need to know to be a marine. Chaos marines are probably just given armour and a gun and told " Kill as much as you can, and try not to die!"
Last edited by Edicius; March 30th, 2005 at 20:26.
I always figured that CSm never seemed to run out because, unlike Loyalist Marines, they aren't chapters, they are legions. So when the Heresy ended there werten't just 1000 World Eaters/Emporer's Children/etc, there were more like 10,000 of them. Since they kept using the same marines they always had, not having a regular human world form which to recruit, there are no new marines to be the scouts...they have deamons instead.
most CSM Legions i thought still recruited the same as Space Marines, you can imagine expeditions leavign the eye of terror to visit far flung feral and medevial worlds, i've read that story from CSM Codex, excellent about medevial warriors spured on by the Chaos marines in a battle, and the warrior surviving (i think he managed to lance a IMperial Marine after its armour was weakened by a CSM's melta gun) being told he will be his gods warrior in the sky
randomly this all reminds me of two things
the Orgins of Captain Stern the legendary Grey Knights Captain who was stolen form the mortifactors form Posul by the Grey Knights as he was about to be taken up
Original Necomunda for random scenarios you coudl have Chaos Marines, perhaps descending into the underhive to hunt and test recruits? hhhmmm, i can imagine the Alpha Legion doing something like that
The problem with that is that once a person is old enough to be a top notch warrior, wouldn't they be too old for gene-seeding?