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From an increasingly off-topic discussion in the "A Living Emperor?" thread.
Do people still think Russ is still out there? I'd say no, because we have his last words recorded, and in them he says he is dying. Addoran, on the other hand, is claiming that he is somewhere in the EoT from some more recent fluff.
My personal questionmark with that is then why would he have sent the 13th Great Company into the Eye to chase out the Traitor Legions? I don't remember reading anything saying that the Wulfen were his personal Great Company.
What do other people think?
Erm let me slightly tinker with this.
In the original thread you argued that Russ definately won't be back. I was making a point that often GW alter things, write things off (illuminati anyone?), or simply ignore them. Even if Russ was dead I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to write him back in.
As to the fluff source, your source stating he was dead was a 2nd ed source. I'm sure I read a 3rd edition source saying he left for the EOT. I remember something about his armour was found outside a Chaos Temple near the rim of the Eye of Terror . As for the Wulfen issue, this was at a later point. I'm not claiming the 13th company were his personal company, the 13th company went into EOT in the immeadiate aftermath of the heresy, chasing the traitor forces. The departure of Russ was a few centuries later, after the destruction of Prospero, a bit in the manner of Corax.
Last edited by Addoran; May 10th, 2005 at 21:18.
This is true. I'm just wondering if we can reconcile the two.
A later departure does kinda make sense. What happened to Corax?
I can't find my source for the life of me, but I can find loads of references to it.
For example, this timeline claims to be compiled from lots of official GW material, and has labelled
"197.M31 Leman Russ disappears on the night of the Feast of the Emperors
I used to be pretty sure he was dead, but then I rememberd how hard core Primarchs are, and if the 13th Company can survive in the Eye, Big Daddy Leman certainly can. Also the legend of Russ's dissapearence is that on the Feast of the Emporer's Ascension, Russ stood up on the table in the Great Hall of the Fang and was about to make one of his great speeches when suddenly he fell silent. He was suddenly struck by a siezure or something and fell down to his knees. His closest warriors (the ones that served as his retinue in battle) crowded around him and he whsipered to them something that nobody else heard. then they all quietly got up and left. Since then Russ and his boys have been missing, and supposedly his last words are what he said just before leaving, not what he said as he was dieing ,as nobody ever saw him die. (because he's alive O.o) Supposedly the wulfen that came puring out of the Eye are the 13th Great Company who chased the traitors into the Eye after the Heresy.I believe thier return from the Warp is supposed to mean that Russ will return/be found soon, which according to the legends of other Marine Chapters, will signifiy the return of his brother Primarchs and kickoff the big final battle.
the part about Russ's dissapearence is in Index Astartes II
Last edited by Edicius; May 10th, 2005 at 21:20.
Again, remembering an article I read a long time ago, the defeat at Istvaan broke his spirit. The Raven Guard and the Iron Hands were very depleted, and would need a long time to recover their numbers. Corax hung up his weapons and left for the eye in a small one man ship, apparently to get some vengeance/regain some honour.
Nice. As in, left his weapons behind?
I always thought Corax left because of the mutants he created in his failed cloning experiemtn. It made hie grow deeply depressed and he left for the Eye after muttering one of the most painful cliches in 40k fluff history. But feh! We're straying off topic again! Russ damnit Russ! :p
In the second edition fluff, there is indeed a quote claimed to be Russâ€™ last words, though we canâ€™t know for sure if thatâ€™s true. In newer fluff, however, it is as Edicius stated. Russ survived the Heresy, but later left his Legion, bringing only his retinue of a few faithful warriors with him. Where they went is not known, but the Space Wolves believe that Russ will return on the day of the final battle regardless of whether heâ€™s dead at the moment or lost somewhere in the Eye of Terror. Seeing as the Space Wolves believe in a curious combination of Imperial religion and Norse mythology, I donâ€™t think it actually matters to them. Norse mythology spoke of Ragnarok, the final battle between good and evil, where all great warriors of the past would live again to fight beside the gods, and I think the same is true for the Wolftime that Russ mentioned in his alleged last words. Every once in a while a senior Rune Priest is also granted a vision by the spirit of Russ, proving to the Space Wolves that he is still out there. They will then launch a Great Hunt and attempt to find him or his last resting place in the Eye of Terror, though none have yet been successful.Originally Posted by Xerxes
As for the 13th Great Company, there are two stories suggesting why they were lost in the Eye of Terror. One states that the Company lead the assault on Prospero, breaking through the lines of the Thousand Sons and following Magnus through the portal he created to escape with his Legion, while the other story claims that Russ sent the 13th Company to kill Abaddon immediately after the Heresy, before he managed to secure a foothold within the Eye. Considering that the 13th Company chose to reappear during the 13th Black Crusade makes me think that the second story might be the most likely, but thatâ€™s just my personal opinion. I canâ€™t see Russ sending a whole Company of his through a warpgate to pursue a bunch of cowards and traitors without joining them himself, but it does make sense for him to quietly send the Company off on some covert mission after the Heresy, when Guilliman was working on the Codex Astartes and making a fuss about Russ not wanting to split his Legion into Chapters. Having the 13th Company around might cause even more trouble, appearing to be warp-touched and barely controllable as they were, and thus it seems reasonable to give them something useful to do while keeping them away from Guilliman for a while. I guess Russ didnâ€™t think it would take them this long to track down Abaddon and kill him.I am not sure I understand this statement correctly. Would you care to explain? As far as I know, the destruction of Prospero, the Thousand Sonsâ€™ homeworld, took place before the Heresy, not after. Perhaps I simply donâ€™t understand it correctly, though.Originally Posted by Addoran
"Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.
The scourging of Prospero was before the Heresy; the Emperor ordered it when the Sons tried to warn him that Horus was plotting against him. The Emperor didn't believe them and sent the Space Wolves trotting in.
I missed that before, sorry.