What kind of fluff Inquisitor are you, and why?

[The_Giant_Mantis]

Originally Posted by nemogbr

Quote:
Why hasn't the Tau technology for making better guns not been copied by the Imperium?

Because the Imperial authorities aren't like modern humans at all, perhaps?

You might as well be asking 'why don't Christians make deals with satan.. it would give them a real advantage.'

[Grand Master Saiyan Sanguine]

It's not as clear cut as that. Radical Ordo Xenos regularly attempt to clone alien weaponry and have succeeded in doing so somwhat. Necron weaponry is an especial soft spot. I think it's very...well...i hate using this word...stupid, to make new rounds for bolters and change vehicle patterns and yet they refuse to create new and BETTER weaponry. The imperium, what a flavourful life they lead.

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by nemogbr

I would say that the stagnation and medieval attitude to technology in the Imperium does not stand up to logic.

During the so called Dark Ages of Europe. The Middle East and China advanced in learning and technology; That was just one world. What could exist in a Galaxy of a million plus worlds?
But the Middle East and China weren't in the Dark Age, that's why they could advance; in 40k the whole Galaxy is under a Dark Age. A better question to ask would be did Europe advance much during the Dark Ages. And the answer would be no.

Originally Posted by nemogbr

If a guardsman were to acquire a weapon knowing that it would allow him the chance to stay alive better than his old weapon? Superstition can only go so far after all.

But indoctrination (which is what the Imperium gives, not just superstition) can go further. The above scenario would never happen in the Guard; xenotech is believed to be worse than Imperial tech, despite its effectiveness. The basic belief is that an equivalent-role Imperial gun would be better than xenotech if they were in the same situation. No guardsman would go to confidently to war knowing he could definitely get a better gun than he already has.

[nemogbr]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

During the so called Dark Ages of Europe. The Middle East and China advanced in learning and technology; That was just one world. What could exist in a Galaxy of a million plus worlds?
But the Middle East and China weren't in the Dark Age, that's why they could advance; in 40k the whole Galaxy is under a Dark Age. A better question to ask would be did Europe advance much during the Dark Ages. And the answer would be no..

I look at the Galaxy as a very big place and one could spend several lifetimes going from one place to the other encountering

feral worlds; Fenris - Vikings with no advance tech whatsoever.
Medusa - Mobile Fortresses with the help of the Adeptus mechanicus.

to high tech worlds such as Thracian Primaris with the ubiquitous use of Star ships.

in this century there are millions of people who have never used a telephone. Then we have people who are gadget freaks and would suffer a nervous breakdown if they lose a signal with their mobile phones.

It is a logical assumption that at least one world or system would have an enclave of humans with technology more advance than the Imperium. They may even be part of the Imperium, but are withholding their secret away from the Inquisition and the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Originally Posted by Xerxes

But indoctrination (which is what the Imperium gives, not just superstition) can go further. The above scenario would never happen in the Guard; xenotech is believed to be worse than Imperial tech, despite its effectiveness. The basic belief is that an equivalent-role Imperial gun would be better than xenotech if they were in the same situation. No guardsman would go to confidently to war knowing he could definitely get a better gun than he already has.

Reminds me of the time when the European military tactic was a line of men with bayonets charging the enemy. They learned their lesson during the first world war. The other sides weaponry can be just as effective in killing you.

In the 40k universe, the commissars tend to have a short shelf life, particularly among the Catachans. They're not exactly what you would call indocrinated .

Indoctrination is one thing, but NATURAL human greed is another.

I've been told of cases with soldiers in the boundaries of the old Soviet states engaging in barter with their Soviet counterparts

The European soldiers had chocolate and the Soviets had coffee...

[The_Giant_Mantis]

1. Even on the most high tech imperial worlds, technology rests in the hands of a privilaged elite. Even then, the only people who really know how it works are the Adeptus Mechanicus. A guardsmen might know that a certain cleaning/maintainance procedure is neccesary to keep his lasgun working, but if it actually breaks, he needs to take it to an enginseer, because he will have abseloutely no clue how it works.

Things like the Ordo Xenos are an exception.. If you find a fluff example of a radical ordo xenos inquisitor who feels the technology he is privilaged enough to use should be available to the masses or bought into common use because it's 'more effective', tell me about it.

2. Because they control technology utterly (not just the devices.. they control the skills. In fact, their devotional rituals are the skills.) the Adeptus Mechanicus decides when a certain piece of technology should be improved or assimilated.

3. The Adeptus Mecanicus have a categorical religious proscription against alien tech. They believe that using it will taint them.

So expecting the Imperium to adopt alien weapons and technology really is like expecting a christian (or, in fact, a whole sect of christian priests) to make a deal with satan. It's not going to happen.

There is room for a few crazy tech priests/planets/inquisitors to try it, but only if one accepts that it's a one way ticket to exterminatus.

[Alexei Vor Yaruk]

You all do know this has left the thread topic complaetly right?

But still, one of my fluff backgrounds U have yet to write up is about a signor magos who actualy starts CATOLUGEING the archives of his forge world and in ecence recreating the STC by puting it all into a huge computer database. Impirial hovor tanks! how? Heavy armored helicopers!

[ze_poodle]

This discussion is off-topic like a fifteen-year-old is out of bounds.

Anyways, the reason why a soldier won't, for example, pick up and use a Tau rail gun is simple;

A) They have no clue how Tau rail guns work and the Mechanicus aren't likely to research it for them. Some IG engineers get put in prison for life for upgrading and improving their tanks without a Techpriest's permission - even if the changes make it better.
They have their own superstition about alien technology - who wouldn't after seeing a floating hover-tank?
C) They don't know how their own guns work, for a start. Even Space Marine's aren't sure how a bolter is constructed. They know it shoots things, and they can probably take it apart and put it back together, but they don't know the science of it.

That's where the idea of the machine spirit comes from - take care of the spirit through maintenance and regular cleaning and the machine will work for you. If you neglect it, by not repairing it when needed and 'honouring' the machine, then it'll break down when you need it most. Simple. It's all just natural logic flavoured by supersition. The Land Raider's Machine Spirit is actually a computer AI that takes over when the drivers are incapacitated.

You can pull comparisons to our world now, but keep this in mind; the Imperium is not like our world. It's incredibly religious, for one. Our world is considerably more free-thinking and liberal, at least at the moment. The Imperium has been effectively using the same gun for ten thousand years. There's been improvements, modifications and reformations, but technology doesn't advance so much as it stagnates. It's just how it is.

'Course, there's always the IG soldiers with pulse rifles who turned over to the Tau side, but that's a different kettle of fish.

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by nemogbr

It is a logical assumption that at least one world or system would have an enclave of humans with technology more advance than the Imperium. They may even be part of the Imperium, but are withholding their secret away from the Inquisition and the Adeptus Mechanicus.

In which case why not spread it? And you're forgetting the power of the Mechanicus and Ministorum. They would denounce anything as heresy if it was against their beliefs. Any more advanced technology would soon be crushed.

Originally Posted by nemogbr

Reminds me of the time when the European military tactic was a line of men with bayonets charging the enemy. They learned their lesson during the first world war. The other sides weaponry can be just as effective in killing you.

True. But when the generals are as pig stupid as in WWI, things don't change. And it's one thing to see a weapon being effective, it's quite another to reverse engineer it based solely on its observed effect. And with a regressive organisation like the Mechanicus having a monopoly on technology, it ain't going to happen soon.

Originally Posted by nemogbr

In the 40k universe, the commissars tend to have a short shelf life, particularly among the Catachans. They're not exactly what you would call indocrinated.

Indoctrination is one thing, but NATURAL human greed is another.

True on both counts. But then why are there no "better" weapons used by the Catachan regiments? Because they're scared of Imperial justice? But they kill commissars, they're obviously not worried there. Because they don't know how to use it? Guns are simple things to use. The most credible explanation is that they simply have no impulse to go for the better weapon, brought about by indoctrination. Human greed will only go so far when said greed is obvious and in breach of accepted conduct.

[deversnik]

i've been looking for stuff on Inquistor factions, i did read an article about Thorian Inquistors and saw something about a Thorian Ordo Xenos Inquistor

[Gonfrask]

I´m Monodominant, in a WD there was an articule about the principal factions of the Inquisition (3 radicals and 3 puritans), and the Monodominants are the worst xenofobics Inquisitors you can found (just great)