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OK, before I start, please forgive the following rant. I love reading the many unique chapter origins that people have come up with, but it really chaps my @$$ when people write fluff that is, well, unfluffy. I really am not trying to offend anyone, but rather to simply express my opinion on the matter. So here are some of the most annoying anti-fluff fluff that I've seen on these forums.
1. Female Space Marines - I am sick and tired of people trying to make female space marine chapters. Or female space marines, period. It has nothing to do with misogyny, or bigotry, or any other bass- ackward thoughts other than the simple fact that it has been stated in the fluff that Space Marines can only be men. I'm all for expounding on the mythology of 40K, but there are still some rules that need to be followed to be fluffy. No one wants to make a Tau space marine, yet for some reason people feel that it's unfair that women can't be space marines. Well, guess what? The whole Imperium is by definition unfair. It's unfair that psykers are killed without trial. It is unfair that no free speech exists. It's unfair when whole planets are decimated because of 10 chaos cultists. And yes, it's unfair that women can't be SM. Too bad. Them's the breaks.
2. DIY Chapter Creation. You cannot have a Space Marine chapter that was founded without the express approval of the High Lords of Terra. So no, you did not kill a SM and figure out how to use the geneseed. You didn't steal a sample of geneseed and use it. That just doesn't happen.
3. Lost First Founding. Your chapter was NOT a lost first-founding chapter. People who write this are like people who get hung up on the size of their manhood. For crying out loud, just because you don't have a unique primarch per se does not confer that your chapter sucks. Just accept the fact that you are ultimately an offshoot, as there is no shame in that. Or play a FF chapter to start with. It's OK, you aren't inferior just because you weren't the first.
4. Non- traitorous traitors. Look, when the traitors turned to chaos, they killed those that weren't on board (look at what happened to the chaplains in all but the Word Bearers). If they didn't turned they were either killed by their comrades or by the loyalist chapters. Or they killed themselves in shame ( remember, for the Imperium penetance = death). And before you start pulling out DA, remember that less than half the chapter rebelled, and the remnants are few and far between. A lost squad wouldn't survive this long after the heresy (which was almost 10,000 years ago), and no, don't say that they were lost in the f(**&565 warp, either ( see #5).
5. Lost in the Warp. The ultimate cop-out. As in, " Well, my chapter would have been the most legendary defender of Terra but they were lost in the warp en route, and that's why no one has ever heard of them". :huh: RIIIIGHT. Very similar to # 3.
6. Technology from the Dark Age. Why do you have 9 plasma guns in a single squad? " Well, my chapter comes from a planet that still has everything from the Dark Age of Technology, so we have all of the best weapons and armor, and our bullets are magic and can kill anything with S10, and our armor is super- strong and we can teleport without scatter , blah, blah..." :rolleyes: Buddy, pretty much all knowledge about the Dark Ages was lost, THAT'S WHY IT IS CALLED THE "DARK AGE"! If you new so much about it, so would the Imperium, and it would be the " Age of Great and Wonderful Knowledge and Overpowered Weapons" or some stuff like that. Nice try.
So , in brief, that is but a few of the " Fluff Fouls" that really annoy me. I think that the greatest fluff is that which has a unique and intriguing story without having to break some pretty well- established fluff tenets. The stuff above is, in my opinion, lazy writing. Anyone can break the rules to be different, but real talent comes from using the rules in a new and special way to craft a great and unique story. Feel free to respond, or add some more things that annoy you. This should be fun.
Marion: You're not the man I knew ten years ago.
Indiana: It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage.
For the last time, there are
NO FEMALE SPACE MARINES!!!!!
Agreed. Especially point 3.
But I'm not touching #1 with a twenty-foot pole.
Heh, theres a few more that I think you missed there RJ. Mind if I fill them in?
7. Space Marines working for the Tau
Yes, Imperial Guard have sometimes defected to the Tau. But Space Marines arent Imperial Guard! Space Marines are brainwashed to hate all Xenos uncontrollably. Theyre all brainwashed over a course of decades and recieve psycho-surgery to make sure it fits. Even Chaos Marines hate Xenos and wont ally with aliens. Even if somehow a chapter did ally with the Tau, they would be hunted down by all Ordos of the Inquisition, every loyal chapter that could be brought to bear, and the chapter would be hunted into extinction. In addition, Space Marines there would not be able to recruit, repair damaged equipment, or aquire new equipment. Yes, the Tau have advanced technology, but no they cant make Space Marines or any of their equipment. If they could, then there would be genetically modified Tau warriors hulking around tearing peoples heads off. And remember, the Tau normally make their mercenaries equip themselves! In less than 250 years that chapter would be no more. Its impossible in 3 ways, so enough already! It cant happen!
8. Lost Companies or Squads making new chapters.
As was said before, Chapters simply cannot be created without an order from the High Lords. A squad or company caught behind enemy lines will not create a new chapter, no matter how long they have been there. First of all they dont have the equipment to create a new chapter! Chapters require a massive amount of Imperial support and they wont be able to even recruit marine #1 without the support of the High Lords. Second, stranded companies and squads have happened many times in Imperial history, and its very clear that they retain their original chapter indentity until they either all die or they get back to their chapter of origin. Thirdly, if anyone tried this the Chapter would be destroyed by the Inquisition and other Chapters as to change chapter allegiance is trechary most foul.
9. Chapter Master Emperor
Your chapter master is not the Emperor reborn, nor a Primarch, nor a clone of the Primarch. He's a Space Marine. Leave what is GWs to GW to do with as they see fit. They havent let us down yet, have they?
10. DIY Special Rules
This one is particularly frustrating. You see those tables in the back of Codex: Space Marines? Those are the special rules that you can take for DIY chapters! Thats why theyre there! Thats the only reason theyre there! No, your chapter cant re-roll all rolls to hit. No, they cant move and fire. No, they cant hit in close combat on a 3+ no matter who theyre fighting. No, your marines can't count as fearless. No strange weapons combos, no 9 plasma guns in a squad (like above). If its not in the DIY chapter creation rules, then forget it. What gets me even more is that I regularly see DIY chapters that stack 3 or 4 special rules onto their marines and yet they only charge themselves 15pts per marine in their army list? Cmon guys.
11. Chapters at the Seige of Terra
Your chapter was not at the Seige of Terra, nor could they have been. They did not exist until long after the Seige was over. The only ones who were there were the original legions. They had not split into chapters yet.
12. Emperor's Geneseed
Your chapter was not made using the Emperor's geneseed. The Emperor has no geneseed. Space Marines have many many extra organs, just like the Primarchs. The Emperor was a psychic human and did not have these extra organs. Geneseed is used to control the hormones needed for these extra organs. As the Emperor had no Primarch or Space Marine organs, he has no geneseed and you cant use his DNA to control the hormone levels in a Marines body. Thats why the Emperor created the Primarchs, so that he could use their geneseed to stabilize the hormone levels inside his Space Marines. Your chapter was made using a Primarch's geneseed, or maybe even more than one Primarch's geneseed. But not the Emperor, as the Emperor has no geneseed!
13. Gushing about your chapter is the most loyal super powered chapter of doom, and how your marines are more loyal than anyone's elses. No, they aren't, there's no really conceivable reason why your chapter is more loyal than the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels or any of the the other legions who have been fighting in the Emperor's name. And anyway, both rules and fluff-wise, the Grey Knights are more powerful and loyal than any marine chapter.
14. My chapter was originally founded as the Emperor's personal force of bodyguards.....no they weren't. The Adeptus Custodes are the Emperor's Bodyguards, that niche is long filled.
15. Chaos Tau, NO
Which has nothing to do with fluff per-se.Originally Posted by Warmaster Phthisis
But what about those you base rules on their fluff...which is what that paragraph seems not to mention.
For example. My Chapter can induct Imperial Guard the same why SoB or DH can (Friendly games only, and opponents permission.)
Why? My marines share a system with an IG Regiment....withh a few actually. Not different ones, but the same.
Thats pretty much the ONLY benifit I get since Im a codex chapter to an extent, therefore have no traits.
My Chapter Masters Honour Guard. (Note: NOT Command Squad) Are a squad of Vulpmunden Storm Troopers.
Why? Because, that particular unit helped save him when his command squad fell to Tyranids.
Now, please dont think that all us DIY chapters just have special rules.
For example. I can't take Ven Dreads.
Why? My Chapter is between 700 to 800 years old. It's too young to have them.
I can only take one dread per list/chart for the same reason.
I can only take one squad of Termies, again for the same reason. That and my first company only has 20 anyway.
As you can see, pretty much, the rules I have for my chapter are based on my fluff.
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i personaly dont like the independently intellegent tyranid idea, i dont ever want to see tyranids and anyone else working together as equals
As to female Space Marines ... um ... well, 40k is a game that people can interpret however they want to ... and I realize there are arguments for and against them, but the least a person can do is listen to the other side's arguments .. Check out the Fighting Tigers chapter (forget the website) for some good female SM stuff ....
I'm "sick and tired of" people who don't look at 40k the way it's meant to be looked at. That is, with an open mind. Not just "omg GW does this so it's the only way"...
Well said, Lost Nemesis. It is a fact that little-to-none of GW fluff is etched in stone. I mean, we have over a dozen races and a full 10,000 years to work with. There will be gaps in fluff. It is up to individual commanders to fill these fluff gaps. Speaking of the Fighting Tigers of Veda, I just so happen to have the link to their page. Welcome to the jungle!Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis
Now then, I have an interesting question. Are there any Space Marines from the Iron Hands, Salamanders, or Raven Guard who remember the Istvaan V Massacre? The answer is yes. The Raven Guard 5th Company has the honor of having Venerable Brother Geordi among them. Just like that, I have filled in a fluff gap.
Victorus our mortis,
1. Extra-big/extra-bad space marines - Space marines are already 10 feet tall, can crush skulls with one hand etc etc. Apart from cursed founding chapters (which have their own drawbacks.. really big drawbacks) and the crazy freaks made by Fabius Bile (which are not even space marines) there really is no room in the 40k universe for a chapter whose members are genetically mutated to be even bigger and tougher than regular space marines. If nothing else, that makes you a mutant, and the Emperor's chosen aren't allowed to be mutants without a good reason.
2. 'My chapter are such paragons of loyalty that...' - This isn't quite in the same league, but it irritates me immensely. Almost every player-made loyalist chapter seems to be a paragon of virtue and loyalty whose members have no doubts or human failings. Space marines may be highly indoctrinated and physically puissant, but they're still fundamentally humans, with human flaws. This is what makes them interesting characters, rather than soulless automatons who we can't invest emotionally in. Similarly, you don't have to be a paladin who sticks his sword in the air and shouts heroic statements every 5 minutes to be a space marine. The flesh tearers are a loyalist chapter, aren't they?
3. Unjustified statements - Okay, so your chapter likes riding bikes. That's cool, but why do they like riding bikes? Are they drawn from a steppe culture where vast distances are the defining factor of warfare, or an urban world where biker gangs are prominent. When you make a statement, qualify it and explain the reason behind it. Writing fluff is not just about describing your army (i.e. 'they like plasma weapons because I've given each of my squads one.') It's about describing why that army is as it is, (i.e. 'they like plasma weapons because they come from a world with ancient ties to the adeptus mechanicus, where high quality methods of plasma weapon manufacture are still maintained.')
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; August 16th, 2005 at 23:36.
There is an ovearching metaplot that GW has created, however, if you want to do something that goes against the metaplot but still follows the rules straight out of their Codex's as they are written, then why bother chastising them?
Who cares if someone wants to think that their chapter was an original founding chapter? If they show up to the game and use the rules from the Space Marine Codex, without making up their own cheesy rules, then I don't really care.
You wanna slap some female heads and boobies on your Space Marines? See if I care. But when you show up to the game table, you had better pick a set of rules and follow them.
My last point is this: If you are writing some fluffy story and you aren't making an army based off of it, then yeah, you should follow the rules that GW has set out for you. Why? Because there are a million stories you could write without ever having to depart from what GW has said exists in their universe.
When it comes to modeling, however, I say do whatever looks good to you, even if it breaks the fluff. I mean GW can break their own fluff for the sake of the game, so why can't we? :rolleyes: