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I was just wondering about the loyalty of space marines. are they loyal to the emperor directly or to their chapter. I don'tmean on a religous basis, i know the whole belif system of the imperium is based upon to god-emperor, but i was thinking about their true loyalty. Thier Battle brothers.
This is my train of thought:
during the Heresy, the chapters(or legions im not sure of the fluff) changed over to chaos. I wasn't as though people switched from random chapters to the side of chaos and then formed into chapters on the chaos side, whole chapters swiched sides. now i know the odd person was most likely against the change but thats not what im thinking of here.
since whole chapters swiched I'm led to think that space marines are "programed" to be loyal to the chapter as well, if not more, then the Emperor.
Anybody agree or disagree with this?
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Most likely. I, for one, agree or disagree with you. How about you? Do you agree or disagree with me? Yes or no. Or both. :pOriginally Posted by avihai
Well Space Marines don't actually believe that The Emperor was a God anyway, only that he was a very powerful and gifted individual.
Loyalist Space Marines generally owe their allegiance to their Chapter and to The Emperor; they do not see them as being in conflict - a Space Marine Chapter exists to serve the Emperor, so their goals are one and the same. Sometimes a Chapter may seem to be very far from the idea of serving the Emperor laid down by say The Ecclesiarchy, The Administratum or even The Inquisition, but they are the Emperor's chosen, sons of The Primarchs, and they exist thanks to the Emperor and live to protect his Empire.
Space Marines owe their loyalty to the ideals of the Imperium. bringing light where there was darkness, freeing humanity from the domination of Chaos and Alien Overlords and ultimately guiding humanity through its evolution into a psychic race.
It depends entirely on the chapter..
In short, there are actually very few 'common' codes of conduct or beliefs between the various space marine chapters. They are guided by their own moral compass, and that's sometimes very different to that of the people they are charged to protect. That is why the Space Wolves, one loyalist marine chapter, hate the Flesh Tearers, another loyalist marine chapter, over a point of ethics.
So some chapters doubtless believe they are servants of the Emperor, first and foremost (The 'what would Jesus do?' effect), while others place loyalty to the chapter over everything else. Remember, however, that the Imperial Creed is not a fixed thing.. it varies from world to world, and, even more significantly, from space marine chapter to chapter. The chapter helps to shape a space marines perception of loyalty to the Emperor.
Some space marines do believe the Emperor is a god, others don't. (It mentions in the Index Astrates article on the Emperor's Children that, unlike some chapters, they didn't believe in the Emperor was a divine being. This implies that there were (and likely still are) some who did.)
Similarly, chapters have differing ideas about how they interpret the Emperor's message. I don't think it's fair to say they're all commited to psychic evolution, for example, because a lot of them hate psychics with an unquenchable passion. If anything, I'd say space marines are commited to preserving the status quo of the Imperium as a whole. Everything they are taught to believe is likely much the same as that their predecesors were taught to believe.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; August 23rd, 2005 at 16:42.
[Originally Posted by avihai
In the days of the great crusade SM were led by totally different ideals than they are at present. The underlying thought was that all SM fought for the Emperor and secondly for their primarch and then for themselves. Pride, back then was a big part of a marines life, owing to the heresy that's why it is a sin to a marine today. Marines were more 'human' back then, they prided themselves at being good at whatever they did, however it ran deeper in that, they compared themselves to their brother marines. They took offense to even their brother marines being better than them at a particular act. Marines lived through their primarch, who was a god among them, the only thing higher than their primarch in their eyes was the Emperor. For the latter part of the crusade the Emperor never fought alongside various legions as he used to and so traitor marines for the most part never got to witness how much better the Emperor was than their primarch. Most of the men from the traitor legions who could not be turned were men from Earth who fought alongside the Emperor for most of their careers and knew that no primarch could ever compare to the Emperor of man. But to all other traitors, the Emperor was weak because they never saw him fight. Therefore the thought that Horus was better in every way and other primarchs sided with Horus and so the men followed, hence their loyalty was to their legion.
Today, as a result of the heresy,it is a sin to be prideful. Marines may acknowledge they are good at a particular function but never to the point where they admit to themselves 'I'm better than you or him'. Their function is to serve the Emperor and protect mankind. Every chapter serves the Emperor above all. They do it differently than regular humans. Space marines for the most part listened to the Emperor in the old days by not acknowledging him as a god and so that has passed down to today. SM see the Emperor as a powerful man who held inbridled power and wisdom, the man who would pave the way to a better future for humanity as a whole, not an indestructable being who holds the power to all. Because just to make it known, all regular humans except inquisitors and other high ranking individuals do not know that the Emperor is technically dead and that the horus heresy ever happened. The Emperor is the highest power in the universe, hence why everything else in the way of humanity is scum, so the Emperor comes first, primarch second, chapter third.
From the time that they are recruited warriors know about the sky warriors who serve the God Emperor, chapters who recruit heavily from a particular planet are legends to the people but they are 'programmed' once their inducted to serve the Emperor above all (if they don't know already) and their primarch is second place. It just doesn't help that most if not all chapters pray to their pray to their primarchs just as much as they do the Emperor, which only pisses off the Ecclesiarchy and the marines get to tell them to kiss their a**.
It is also the fact that space marines see them selves as brothers, more so when they are part of the same chapter. So if the primarch goes anti emperor then it is almost guaranteed that the rest of the chapter will. for the reason that they do in fact see the primarch as a god.
As a side note, the best way in my opinion to learn exactly what made the pre-heresy marines tick and why they went crazy you should read the Horus Heresy novels, great read that fills in a lot of gaps in the fluff.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm, we ran to the sounds of thunder. We danced among the lighting bolts, and tore the world asunder.
Look at the Soul Drinker books. You see the Emperor comes above all things to Space Marines unless they happen to be corrupted in some way. This is a chapter against the Imperium, they join chaos and are warped by them, but in all they believe in serving the Emperor, just not the corrupted Imperial forces. Or at least of what I have read.
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2005, by the way.
No more NG spearmen, thanks! Now I need some pump-wagons!