how does chaos continue to exist? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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    how does chaos continue to exist?

    it seems to me chaos marines shouldnt be alive anymore.
    reasons
    1. i dont know how they get more marines(you dont see chaos scouts do you)
    2.you went on craploads of crusades and none of them really seem to be victorious(i mean kill the emperor)
    3.you fight with each other(read bout kharn the betrayer)
    4.not only does the imperium hate you eldar hate you too.
    5. thousand sons are like souls trapped in shells(so you getting new recruits is higly unlikly)

    all this is after 10000 years of fighting. our world wars kill alot of people in a short amount of time. ww1 was 5 years... ww2 was 6 years

    can someone prove me other wise??

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    Im not a big fluff master but Chaos will still go on with its own Daemon. As long as the creatures (human and xeno alike) follow there emotions and die they will be feeding the 4 gods. Chaos doesnt always use marines. There are lost and the damned which are mutants and IG basically. There are orks that maybe worship a chaos icon thinking its Mork or Gork (that is one of the hooks in DH codex). I think chaos can even be manifested by tyranid's killing sprees same goes for Dark elder i guess. So as long as there is someone breathing there is still a very good chance that they will either fight agaisnt chaos or with them.

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    Chaos has been known to recruit from chaos-worshipping populations in the Chaos Marches or the Eye of Terror. Cultists are implanted with geneseed either taken from dead CSM or elese stolen from the bodies of dead SM. However, these "half-breeds" tend to be treated with scorn and disdain by the "pure" Chaos Space Marines.
    "You're very interesting, and very perceptive. So interesting, and so perceptive, in fact, that we shall now fight with KNIVES!"
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    I'm sure I read somewhere that CSM are resurrected if they die after like 1000 years. If anyone could give more detail about this that would be helpful.

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    Well time is distorted within the Eye of Terror so they won't really die of old age. Also, you have to remember that the first founding chapters were much larger than they are now under the Codex Astartes. They were immense legions and they had far greater numbers to begin with so there should still be lots around now.

    There is also the fact that loyal Space Marines are sometimes seduced by the ruinous powers and end up turning their back on the Emperor although they would join the Red Corsairs in the Maelstrom rather than the other legions in the Eye of Terror.

    Just speculating but perhaps they can't actually die in the Eye of Terror, only when they leave it to attack the Imperium?

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    Sigh...perhaps we should have a sticky about this.

    Chaos DO recruit new members, there are many fluff sources out there that show this. It just seems that Chaos have more difficulty recruiting, not having access to great geneseed repositories like loyalist chapters.

    Think about:

    1/ The article on the Nightlords, stating how 'their Martial Pride has been subsumed by the recruiting of murderers and criminals into their ranks".
    2/ How in the book Storm of Iron, one of the Warsmiths has been created through captured Imperial geneseed.
    3/ Yes, he had to pop up sooner or later, Fabius Bile has a history of being a specialist of creating CSM.

    You don't even really need all this really, you just have to remember that for every CSM that dies you get geneseed for making 2 more. I remember reading an article that describes how unlike the careful measured process of SM implantation, CSM recruitment is a much more painful and brutal affair, where basically they do the basics and see if the recruit is strong and deserving enough to survive.

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    Plus the fact that the 40k rules use the word "casualty" rather than "death". Casualties are not necessarily dead, just incapable of fighting on until they receive treatment. My guess is that SM and CSM casualties merely include more of this kind of casualty than armies like Imperial Guard.

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    perhaps i sholud have replaced chaos with chaos space marines

    i realize there are new recruits but that cant stop the endless infighting. but there is nothing to put the new recruits through there pacing(except real battles) is there? also how do they recruit guys. i mean it not likly that chaos worshippers can exactly take a trip to the eye of terror... cults are more or less scattered amonst the imperium(i would think the eye of terror would distort many humans)

    i think they can die in they eye of terror(look at kharn and the people he killed in the eye of terror)

    how many cultists are there? surely those not near chaos marine places are stomped out by the inqustion.

    i just think the logistics of maintaining a large chaos marine force would be nearly impossible.you can come for craploads of crusades and there are still some origianal horus marines left?

    if you come out of the eye of terror and your army falls back your gonna be killed if you are a casulty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    i mean it not likly that chaos worshippers can exactly take a trip to the eye of terror... cults are more or less scattered amonst the imperium(i would think the eye of terror would distort many humans)
    But nevertheless they can and do live there. I'm pretty sure there are records of many legions having slaves that are more or less indigenous to the dæmon worlds they live on. It's likely that these would give a nice recruitment base for any Legion that takes them up on it, if they can transplant things (I'm dubious about Bile being the only one that can do this).

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    i think they can die in they eye of terror(look at kharn and the people he killed in the eye of terror)
    Yeah, but not die of old age. Kharn was alive at the Siege of the Emperor's Palace, and he still walks. Just so long as your wounds don't kill you, you'll survive.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    surely those not near chaos marine places are stomped out by the inqustion.
    Unless they're good enough to take on the PDFs and win. Admittedly they'll have a harder and harder job to keep going as more and more Imperial troops are diverted to deal with them, but they have a fighting chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    i just think the logistics of maintaining a large chaos marine force would be nearly impossible.you can come for craploads of crusades and there are still some origianal horus marines left?
    Bearing in mind many CSM have made pacts with the Chaos Gods, isn't it likely that they'll be protected by their patrons against such things as starvation?

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    if you come out of the eye of terror and your army falls back your gonna be killed if you are a casulty.
    True, but "fall back" is a weird term. Full on rout, yes it'll be a massacre, but falling back generally isn't so much a full fight as a tactical retreat. This means they may well be able to take several of their wounded comrades back with them as they go. If CSM are that compassionate, that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    it seems to me chaos marines shouldnt be alive anymore.
    Why not? As it has already been stated, time moves differently in the warp, and hence in the Eye of Terror, so Chaos Marines don’t necessary grow any older while spending time in the Eye. Plus, their divine masters might also grant them an unusually long life. Some, like Khârn and Lucius, even appear to be immortal.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    1. i dont know how they get more marines(you dont see chaos scouts do you)
    I believe Lleu and Addoran have already covered this question. Some new Chaos Marines are simply loyalists who have been turned to worship of the Ruinous Powers. But Chaos Marines do procreate. Some new Marines are created from the original geneseed of their Legion, although most genetic material from the original Marines have been corrupted by prolonged exposure to the warp and is useless for transplantation. Instead, some Chaos Marines have taken to stealing geneseed from loyalist Chapters and take a perverse pleasure in using the holy genome of the loyalist Primarchs to create more of their own twisted kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    2. you went on craploads of crusades and none of them really seem to be victorious(i mean kill the emperor)
    Neither is the Imperium victorious in destroying the Traitor Legions hiding in the Eye of Terror, and this is exactly how Games Workshop wants it. If one side were suddenly to prevail, there wouldn’t be much of a game left, now would there? As for fluffy reasons, you must consider the fact that the Emperor is really well protected. He literarily has a whole Imperium willing to die to protect Him. And the lack of cooperation between the various Chaos factions also makes it difficult for them to succeed, since they really don’t like working together and will try to backstab each other at any given opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    3.you fight with each other(read bout kharn the betrayer)
    Yeah, but the Imperium also has a whole bunch of enemies that either won’t or can’t touch the Traitors inside the Eye of Terror. As long as the Chaos Marines remain inside the Eye, they are practically safe from everyone else, and have time to build up their strength before launching each Black Crusade. The Imperium has to fight not only Chaos and internal rebellion, but also a lot of angry aliens.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    4.not only does the imperium hate you eldar hate you too.
    The Eldar also hate the Imperium, and the Imperium hates the foul xenos. And while the Imperium and the Eldar are busy fighting each other, the Eye of Terror is left alone. Which I’m sure suits the Traitors just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    5. thousand sons are like souls trapped in shells(so you getting new recruits is higly unlikly)
    Thousand Sons do not recruit new Marines to my knowledge (or perhaps only a select few to replace their sorcerers, who still have corporeal bodies), but they don’t die either. The souls of ‘killed’ Thousand Sons remain intact in the warp after the destruction of their armour, and it is possible for them to re-enter the physical dimension through possession of cultists in an arcane ritual described in the Black Library novel ’Grey Hunter’ by William King. So basically, the Thousand Sons do not get new recruits, they simply keep bringing back Marines from the dead to fill their ranks. This also means that Thousand Sons never have to struggle with inexperienced recruits, and that they’re not at all afraid of dying, which makes them really tough to fight against.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    all this is after 10000 years of fighting. our world wars kill alot of people in a short amount of time. ww1 was 5 years... ww2 was 6 years
    True. However, you must remember that the 40k universe is a big place indeed. A few dozen planets might be destroyed or corrupted every time Chaos attacks, but with a million worlds populated by humans, a few million or even billion casualties are nothing. Humans are notoriously difficult to wipe out. We’re like Orks, we always come back.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    also how do they recruit guys. i mean it not likly that chaos worshippers can exactly take a trip to the eye of terror... cults are more or less scattered amonst the imperium(i would think the eye of terror would distort many humans) […]how many cultists are there? surely those not near chaos marine places are stomped out by the inqustion.
    The Eye of Terror is actually inhabited by quite a large population of (more or less) ordinary human beings, most of which are fortunate enough to be so pitiful that the big bad evil things tend to ignore them most of the time. The book ’Daemon World’ by Ben Counter is an example of this. The book takes place in the Maelstrom, granted, and not the Eye, but it’s still a good example of the fact that it is possible for ordinary human beings to survive even on daemon-infested worlds half immerged into the warp. Chaos Marines don’t have to leave the Eye of Terror to find cultists, there’s plenty right in the Eye itself. As for the number of cultists, inside the Eye and out, my guess is that there are more than anyone in the Imperium is willing to admit. Certainly enough for the Chaos Marines to have a near limitless supply of new recruits and cannon fodder.

    Quote Originally Posted by jancz
    i just think the logistics of maintaining a large chaos marine force would be nearly impossible.you can come for craploads of crusades and there are still some origianal horus marines left?
    Actually, it’s an established fact that the inexperienced soldiers are the first to die in a battle. I bet the veterans of the Horus Heresy are really difficult to kill. Also, there are plenty Chaos Marines who have been trapped in the warp for shorter or longer time, suddenly to return to the Imperium to spread havoc and mayhem. The main character from Simon Spurrier’s novel ’Lord of the Night’ was trapped in the warp for ten thousand years and became really unhappy about it when he found out, which in turn made a lot of other people really unhappy too. So it seems that Chaos Marines can be really difficult to get rid off.

    Wow, this is a very long post. I hope it’ll answer some of your questions. ^_^

    ~Grephaun.
    "Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.


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