some Luna Wolves fluff

[Brigand]

Ok just a few things id like to point out

1) not alot of people know of the existence of the Sons of Horus/LunaWolves and part of the point in having the name LunaWolves is that fewer people still know of that name BECAUSE they were renamed.
2) I was not clear i meant the gene-seed was from a vault were the emperor kept the gene-seed he used to create the primarchs in the first place, to my knowledge Horus was corrupted AFTER he was born not before.
3) recruitment would be possible because it would be from more primal peoples like many chapters do they would not have any access to knowledge of Horus or the LunaWolves so it wouldnt matter all they know is that they serve these particular people.
4) they do have considerable power yes but most of the point is that they are just not known of except for the people involved, the only people who might need to know are the Inquisition and the members of the Guild in the Inquisition's main job would be keeping the Inquisition off their back
5) about the whole Space Marines at their beck and call thing so do alot of people the Inquisition has the Deathwatch AND the Gret Knights and though they dont CONTROL them they are in a heaviliy favored alliance the Belisarius Navigator house and the Space Wolves work together all the time
6) kind of what darkreever said i mean no offense but havent you ever heard of an Inquisitor Lord which have access to Assassins Psykers and the more powerful ones practically have entire armies that THEIR beck and call
7) recieving orders from the emperor thing has a few points (1) do you know that many leaders of the Imperium actually FEAR the return of the emperor becuase if he came back then they would lose power and they dont want that so even if they DID know about the ability to contact the Emperor they wouldnt want it to happen (2) this was merely a suggestion it isnt as though iv already written a book on the subject and made an army to match.

[Nagato]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Ok just a few things id like to point out
7) recieving orders from the emperor thing has a few points (1) do you know that many leaders of the Imperium actually FEAR the return of the emperor becuase if he came back then they would lose power and they dont want that so even if they DID know about the ability to contact the Emperor they wouldnt want it to happen (2) this was merely a suggestion it isnt as though iv already written a book on the subject and made an army to match.

As NitteRabbit said, major complications involved with the current fluff. The only thing thats above the High Lords of Terra is the Adpetus Custodes. This is the only "warriors", Emperors Personal Guard that take orders only from the Emperor itself. They are above the orders of the High Lords of Terra and they are cosnidered better than Space Marines.

[NiteRabbit]

Let me go through and analyze your points one at a time. Let's see which ones are viable and which ones are not.

1) not alot of people know of the existence of the Sons of Horus/LunaWolves and part of the point in having the name LunaWolves is that fewer people still know of that name BECAUSE they were renamed.

This is only partially true. Many people within the Imperial Government and the Adeptus Astartes (i.e. the Space Marines) know, but maybe the majority of the commoners are kept in the dark about the Horus Heresy. With the emphasis on the 'maybe'.

2) I was not clear i meant the gene-seed was from a vault were the emperor kept the gene-seed he used to create the primarchs in the first place, to my knowledge Horus was corrupted AFTER he was born not before.

The point is not whether the geneseed is pure enough to be used for creating Space Marines or not. The point is that we don't know (or maybe we do. I don't.) whether this geneseed exists anymore. Logically speaking, the traitor Primarchs were corrupted by Chaos and, by Imperial logic, this is due to their geneseed being fundamentally flawed. Therefore, it would probably never be used again.

3) recruitment would be possible because it would be from more primal peoples like many chapters do they would not have any access to knowledge of Horus or the LunaWolves so it wouldnt matter all they know is that they serve these particular people.

The background of your chapter seems to suggest that it is based in the Segmentum Solar, near or around Holy Terra. If this is the case, you should know that the majority of planets in the Segmentum Solar have already been discovered and colonised by the Imperium so there really are no more feral worlds in that area.

4) they do have considerable power yes but most of the point is that they are just not known of except for the people involved, the only people who might need to know are the Inquisition and the members of the Guild in the Inquisition's main job would be keeping the Inquisition off their back

But how would they secure the loyalty of members of the Inquisition in the first place? Inquisitors are chosen for their training and indoctrination at a very early age and (in theory) they cannot be bribed or reasoned with. If someone approached a member of the Inquisition and asked him to help cover up some secret organisation, he would more likely turn around and expose him as a heretic.

5) about the whole Space Marines at their beck and call thing so do alot of people the Inquisition has the Deathwatch AND the Gret Knights and though they dont CONTROL them they are in a heaviliy favored alliance the Belisarius Navigator house and the Space Wolves work together all the time

The Inquisition are a special case in the Imperium because they are the only organisation that is above all the laws of the Imperium and can commandeer the services of any Imperial citizen, even the Space Marines. That's why the three Ordos (I don't know about the Ordo Xenos, but they will probably be able to) can take Space Marine allies. The Deathwatch and Grey Knights are not controlled, per se, by the Inquisition, but they are officially Inquisition forces rather than independent chapters. That's where the term 'Chambers Militant' comes from; they are the fighting arm of the Inquisition whereas the Inquisitors form the investigative arm.

6) kind of what darkreever said i mean no offense but havent you ever heard of an Inquisitor Lord which have access to Assassins Psykers and the more powerful ones practically have entire armies that THEIR beck and call

Again, the Inqusition is a special case and you are always going to be walking on thin ice if your chapter/regiment/whatever is an exception to the general norms of creating fluff. They can commandeer the services of anyone. ANYONE. The Death Cult assassins serve the Inquisition out of their own free will or under duress or because their beliefs coincide. Take your pick. The Psykers don't really have much of a choice - they'd be dead if they didn't.

7) recieving orders from the emperor thing has a few points (1) do you know that many leaders of the Imperium actually FEAR the return of the emperor becuase if he came back then they would lose power and they dont want that so even if they DID know about the ability to contact the Emperor they wouldnt want it to happen (2) this was merely a suggestion it isnt as though iv already written a book on the subject and made an army to match.

And I have a few points to make in return (1) We know that many of the high ranking officials in the Imperial Government fear the return of the Emperor for exactly the reasons you mentioned (2) I know this is merely a suggestion and we're not trying to flame you or anything, we're just suggesting that you scale it back or start again with a slightly different idea because, within the context of the current fluff, what you are trying to do is a bit implausible. Remember, we're not trying to tear you down or anything; we're just trying to help.

[Xerxes]

Niterabbit's already done a good bit of explaining here, but there are still some bits that I'd like to go over:

Originally Posted by Brigand

3) recruitment would be possible because it would be from more primal peoples like many chapters do they would not have any access to knowledge of Horus or the LunaWolves so it wouldnt matter all they know is that they serve these particular people.

But if anyone came to that world with a remote knowledge of what Space Marines were and the local tribes started babbling about "Sky Warriors" or the like, it'd be blatantly obvious what they were. There's a brilliantly written passage in the Chaos Codex that illustrates this.

Originally Posted by Brigand

4) they do have considerable power yes but most of the point is that they are just not known of except for the people involved, the only people who might need to know are the Inquisition and the members of the Guild in the Inquisition's main job would be keeping the Inquisition off their back

This smells far too like the Illuminati fluff, and that was ditched for good reasons.

Originally Posted by Brigand

5) about the whole Space Marines at their beck and call thing so do alot of people the Inquisition has the Deathwatch AND the Gret Knights and though they dont CONTROL them they are in a heaviliy favored alliance the Belisarius Navigator house and the Space Wolves work together all the time
6) kind of what darkreever said i mean no offense but havent you ever heard of an Inquisitor Lord which have access to Assassins Psykers and the more powerful ones practically have entire armies that THEIR beck and call

Every inquisitor has the whole of the Imperium at their beck and call, that's not the issue; the only semi-autonomous organisation is the Adeptus Astartes, and as you rightly said, they have personal bonds with various organisations. It's the matter of keeping things quiet that's the problem.

Originally Posted by Brigand

7) recieving orders from the emperor thing has a few points (1) do you know that many leaders of the Imperium actually FEAR the return of the emperor becuase if he came back then they would lose power and they dont want that so even if they DID know about the ability to contact the Emperor they wouldnt want it to happen (2) this was merely a suggestion it isnt as though iv already written a book on the subject and made an army to match.

It's true that many in the Imperium wouldn't want a power reshuffle, but that doesn't justify the huge psionic task that communicating with the Emperor would be. If it couldn've been done, it would've been done earlier.

Originally Posted by darkreever

Ya know Xerxes, there are famous inquisitors out their. There are also inquisitor lords and the ordo malleus as well. Since not only is it the job of them to take on daemons but to watch the other ordos. Think about it, this means they can silence the voices of other inquisitors.

Famous inquisitors yes, but a famous name doesn't carry much weight when their enemy knows that they're just as powerful. And I was always under the impression (especially since the Inquisitor game) that Lord was just a way of saying "this guy is uber good at what he does" rather than an indication of rank.

And I'm not sure, but I don't think that Malleus has such an over-riding role any more. The last time that it was stated that they kept an eye on other Ordos was 2nd ed. Particularly since Inquisitor loosened everything up, I'm more inclined to disbelieve it.

[darkreever]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

And I'm not sure, but I don't think that Malleus has such an over-riding role any more. The last time that it was stated that they kept an eye on other Ordos was 2nd ed. Particularly since Inquisitor loosened everything up, I'm more inclined to disbelieve it.

True enough Xerxes, though it still stands that inquisitor lords have the power to silence anyone they want save other inqusiitor lords. (At least I hope this has remained the case since I last interpretted it myself or else my own inqusiitor's story is gonna seem stupid in itself...)

All you need is a single corrupt inquisitor lord and you can do damn near anything you want as long as it remains a secret from those puritans who would see their work purged and all involved destroyed. (The term puritan not just used for inquisitors but for astartes, soroitas, and all imperial factions for that matter.)

[Grey]

Not trying to hijack, just want to explore this a bit.

It seems to me that the Inquisition is theoretically an organization of equals, in that they all have the authority to declare each other heretics ect.

In practice, however there would always be certain inquistors who have more 'pull' due to their personal charisma, age, backing, past accomplishments ect. I would assume, humans being what they are, such well known inquisitors would have other inquistors who would revere them as being past mentors and the like and who would support them and their decisions. Thus, while actual ranks as such would not exist, there would be a subtle unconcious or rather unstated pecking order.

I would think that these Inquisitors, call them lords, famour or what have you, while potentially being vulnerable to charges of heresy and the linke from other inquistors, would be much less likely to be attacked in this way.

When a low ranking Inquisitor would attack such lords, they would be in tremendous danger of having their charges be reversed and redirected at them, unless they could produce overwhelming evidence of the matter.


In fact, as far as I can recall, one of the High Lords of Terra is a memeber of the Inquisition, (The Inquisitorial Representative) and would no doubt have overwhelming support from the other members of the Inquisition.

However, perhaps such a position would be appointed anew every set period of time, and the position would be a mere figurehead, with the real power being in the Inquisitor 'lord(s)' that campaigned to get him or her the position.

(Incidently, I love the pictures of the High Lords of Terra in the main rule book and I wish that they had seen fit to do them all, including the Navigator representative. Its been quite a while since I've seen one drawn in the fluff.)

Any thoughts?

[Grephaun]

There does exist a hierarchy inside of the Inquisition with ranks and titles and whatnot; it’s mentioned in several pieces of fluff as well as the Inquisitor rulebook. The simple hierarchy mentioned in the Inquisitor rulebook is Acolyte (Interrogator), Inquisitor, and Lord Inquisitor; however, in his Eisenhorn trilogy, Dan Abnett adds to this hierarchy the ranks of Lord Inquisitor of an Ordo (a sub-sector has three, one from each major Ordo), Lord Inquisitor of a sub-sector, Lord Inquisitor of a sector, and finally the High Lord of the Inquisition/Representative of the Inquisition who is one of the twelve High Lords of Terra (but not necessarily an Inquisitor himself.)

As for the Ordo Malleus keeping an eye on the other Ordos, they’re still doing that to some degree; in Dan Abnett’s Eisenhorn trilogy, Eisenhorn himself is charged with suspected heresy, arrested and interrogated by an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor who is supposedly the same rank as Eisenhorn but still well within his right to imprison a fellow Inquisitor.

As for the original post in this thread, I find it highly unlikely that a Space Marine Chapter should be located on Terra; it’s been forbidden for Space Marines to set foot on Terran soil since the Horus Heresy (except for the Space Wolves, who have a small contingent called the Wolfblades attached to one of the Navigator Houses; this arrangement predates the Heresy, which is likely why it’s tolerated. However, the Space Wolves aren’t allowed to leave the Ghetto of the Navigators, leading to a very amusing chapter in William King’s novel ‘Wolfblade’ where a group of Wolves sneaks out to go pub-crawling (a time-honoured Chapter tradition), ends up starting a bar brawl and has to run from the Arbites.) In any case, the least sight of a Space Marine or anything looking remotely like a Space Marine on or around Terra would be met with instant suspicion. I find RJSuperfreaky’s description of a Marine ship trying to sneak past the Terran defences not only amusing, but very likely too.

As for the Luna Wolves still existing as a Chapter, the restricted access to gene-seed is of course a problem. However, it’s not entirely impossible. I find it unlikely that anyone would dare start up a new Chapter in the year of 40,000 AD using Traitor gene-seed, but if the Chapter was originally composed of the few Luna Wolves that stayed loyal during the Heresy (some escaped with the Eisenstein, if I remember correctly) and built up from there, it might still be around. Although I’m pretty sure they would have needed a change of name and colours; most Space Marine Chapters know that the Black Legion used to be the Luna Wolves but never heard of the Eisenstein. It would be better for the Luna Wolves to remain hidden than try to explain everyone that they’re not in fact Traitors; most Space Marines prefer to shoot first and ask questions later, and even explaining that ‘yes, Horus was my Primarch, but that doesn’t mean we can’t be friend’ probably wouldn’t help convince them.

As for the Luna Wolves to be controlled by a secret group of Inquisitors, one could imagine that a special sub-division of the Inquisition was created to keep an eye on the loyalist Luna Wolves to ensure that they would feel no sudden urge to go Traitor like their former brethren; like the Chapter itself, that group could also have survived since the Heresy, watching the Chapter in secrecy for any signs of taint or heresy. Their knowledge of the Chapter’s true heritage would grant them a great deal of power over the Marines, likely forcing the Chapter to obey them or else risk exposure of their dark secret. Regardless of where this secret group of Inquisitors might get their orders, be it the Emperor or their own ulterior motives, they could always claim that the Emperor speaks to them; who are Marines to question the Inquisition?

As for the Emperor leaving the Golden Throne, that was an option before the new Sabertooth fluff was published. Now, however, we know that the Emperor can never leave the Golden Throne; if He did, Terra would be overrun with daemons, the Astronomican extinguished, and the Imperium would collapse and be swallowed up by Chaos or one of the many hostile alien races waiting for their chance. So even if He could, I doubt the Emperor would leave the Golden Throne.

Whew, that was a long post. Hope it might provide a bit of inspiration.

~Grephaun.

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by Grephaun

Eisenhorn himself is charged with suspected heresy, arrested and interrogated by an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor who is supposedly the same rank as Eisenhorn but still well within his right to imprison a fellow Inquisitor.

I was under the impression that that was the prerogative of every inquisitor out there; no one is above the eye of the Inquisition, and I took that to mean that any inquisitor could be investigated by anyone else. Indeed, the Inquisitor game wouldn't work nearly as well and bring up half so many complications if this atmosphere of paranoia didn't exist.

Originally Posted by Grephaun

As for the Emperor leaving the Golden Throne, that was an option before the new Sabertooth fluff was published.

Well, we all know Sabretooth suck.

[darkreever]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

Well, we all know Sabretooth suck.

The truth hath no better words...

[King Ulrik Flamebeard]

Umm.. keep on topic next time.

KU