Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I have been collecting Dark angels for a long time, and have enjoyed many awsome games with them. However, recently, I heard a different version of their history during the great heresy. Although radically different to the established "truth," the alternative is plausible. Traditionally it is believed that the Lion was betrayed by his brother Luther. Luther and the substantial Caliban garrison had become jealous at the Lion and the rest of the chapter's growing fame. So, when the Lion returened to Caliban Luther ordered his marines to attack. You know the rest....
However, the alternative story I heard was: The Dark Angels lay relativly low during the heresy. Waiting in the shadows (much as their primarch had done in his early years to avoid Chaos spawned jungle beasts) until a victor emerged. However, when they returend to Caliban it was Luther who thought that the primarch had turned to Chaos, and so onpened fire in an attempt to destroy him.
This theory is a liitle strange, as It doeset explain why the fallen angels would turn to Chaos because of it. So I ask you, do you think this is more likely, or the lies of Chaos heh heh
Apologies if this has been covered before.
Well its not that unbeleivable that the fallen would turn to chaos in the alternate story I mean how would you feel if the entire empire the thing that you had tried to defend by making the hardest decision of your life by attacking your perverbrial "father" turned on you. You would be desperate for any kind of guidance and plus youd be pretty bitter about the whole thing.
"They shall all taste OBLIVION!,.....which tastes like Red Bull, which is disgusting."
I personally favour the second version of the betrayal, as first described in the Black Library novel â€™Angels of Darknessâ€™ by Gav Thorpe and later seemingly supported by the new Sabertooth fluff. I think it adds an interesting dimension to the Dark Angelsâ€™ background story, not to mention a plot-twist of some proportions if it turns out to be true that the loyalist are the (unknowing) descendents of the actual traitors and the Fallen originally the true loyalists.
Itâ€™s true that the only account we have of this version is from one of the Fallen, but taking into consideration that he was not turned to Chaos but still faithful to the Emperor, just not to his apparently traitorous Primarch, and that he actually managed to convince the Interrogator-Chaplain questioning him that he was telling the truth, the story is not entirely implausible. Also, the new Sabertooth fluff reveals that Lion Elâ€™Jonson was the only Primarch who didnâ€™t respond to Rogal Dornâ€™s call for help when Terra was besieged by Horus.
The fact is that, as far as I know, of all the loyalist Legions only the Dark Angels and their Primarch never fought the traitors during the Heresy, a fact that seems rather suspicious to me, although if you ask any Dark Angel fanatic they will of course deny that anything unseemly should have kept Lion Elâ€™Jonson away until well after the fighting had stopped.
As for supposedly loyalist Fallen turning to Chaos, you must remember that they were swallowed up by the warp and spent a long time in the Immaterium where Chaos might have affected them; in the novel â€˜Eye of Terrorâ€™ a true loyalist Dark Angel supportive of Lion Elâ€™Jonson is also lost in the warp during the Horus Heresy and ends up in the Eye of Terror where he finds it difficult to keep his faith in the Emperor and his Primarch when faced with the true might of Chaos. If a loyalist can be turned to Chaos, then so can a Fallen, even if he was originally a loyalist.
"Girls are nice and cuddly on the outside, and freaky on the inside." ~ Lost Nemesis.
As a Dark Angels player though, I myself feel Angels of Darkness is really there to add some level of ambiguity to the Dark Angel's actions. I don't view it as a serious "determination" of the Dark Angel's fluff i.e. meant to be taken as gospel.
I myself prefer to view the second option as the least likely, there's certain things that just don't make sense. E.g.
The Dark Angels were on crusade with the Space Wolves at the time of the heresy. If they had been deliberately stalling it would have been immediately obvious to the Space Wolves.
In the description of the attack on the Fortress-Monastery on Caliban, there is reference to the defacing of images of the Emperor, replaced under oratory by Luthor by images of Chaos.
The reason that Luthor was able to stand up to assault by a Primarch was that he was swelled by the power of Chaos.
When Luthor refused to kill the Lion, "the powers of Chaos were cheated by their pawn and so unleashed a Warp Storm to finish his actions".
When the Dark Angels captured Luthor at the heart of the Rock he was rambling apology for his actions, and how he was no longer possessed.
And so on and so forth, that's not even mentioning that the the source was a fallen, who could have been merely deceived as to Luthor's motivation. For the later explaination to be considered, it conflicts with a lot of accounts in the fluff. I consider it as something thrown in to make the Dark Angels more controversial, but it would require a lot of expansion to be taken as a semi-serious account.
I feel that this interpretation of the Dark Angels is probably more interesting than the usually accepted version. I am not that well-versed in the Dark Angel's fluff, but I will have a go at justifying the account, using Addoran's post, if he doesn't mind.Any deliberate stalling could easily have been hidden by the disagreements between Russ and Johnson, especially by a person as shrewd as Johnson.The Dark Angels were on crusade with the Space Wolves at the time of the heresy. If they had been deliberately stalling it would have been immediately obvious to the Space Wolves.History is written by the victor, and this could be an attempt by Johnson's forces to hide what they did. Luthor could have temporarily been emowered by the Emperor.The reason that Luthor was able to stand up to assault by a Primarch was that he was swelled by the power of Chaos.This could have been an act of desperation on the part of the Gods, seeing that Johnson might lose, or be swayed by Luthors compassion (I forget how the end of the duel played out, so this is probably wrong).When Luthor refused to kill the Lion, "the powers of Chaos were cheated by their pawn and so unleashed a Warp Storm to finish his actions".Perhaps he was sorry for attacking his Primarch, a man he would still feel loyalty towards. He could have meant he was no longer possessed by the Emperor, so no longer had the strength or vindication to keep his sanity in the face of his actions against his Primarch.When the Dark Angels captured Luthor at the heart of the Rock he was rambling apology for his actions, and how he was no longer possessed.
That is my twisted, and no doubt broken interpretation of the events. Feel free to criticise as you see fit.
I think that you have made a mistake there Adarron The space wolves went to prospero to destroy the thousand sons and then chased them into the eye of terror, it was on the way back to terra that they met up with the Dark Angels this leaves a whole swathe of time where there are no accounts for the dark angels actions. As such it could be interpretted that El'johnson sat about doing nothing.
Turning to Addorans reference of how Luthor claimed he was no longer possessed, remember that its not hard for marines to believe that the gifts of chaos to be blessing of the emperor. The soul drinkers learned hat better than anyone...
When you look at what Astelin explained, what would decieving one chaplain amidst an order of them accomplish? IMHO, its the fact that Astelin had no reason to lie about what happened that makes it more believable.
Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
"The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
Member of the Fluff Masters Clan
Nope, at the time of the Siege of Terra, the Space Wolves and the Dark Angels were on crusade together. When news of the Siege reached them, the two chapters returned post-haste to tip the balance.Originally Posted by Mikhail The Heretic
I believe you're both right..Originally Posted by Addoran
Prospero was before the Heresy itself.. The 13th company did go tearing off into the eye of terror, it's true, but the rest of the space wolves didn't keep chasing the thousand sons. They gave up when it became apparent that the sons had fled into places they couldn't go, and went back to their normal duties, leaving the 13th company as lost.