Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Hi all, this seems to be a long one, but I would really like some feedback on these ideas. I've definatly been inspired by both the Adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Astares as well. I didn't want to just go with Iron Hands, so I made my own Chapter. I've tried to keep it in the lines of normally acceptable fluff, so let me know if something is askew.
Well, here goes nothing...
Chapter Name: Sons of the Forge
Iconography: Half black, half white Imperial Aquilla (Two-Headed Eagle) behind the Machina Opus (Adeptus Machanicus Symbol)
Traits: Scions of Mars and Purity Above All, Eye to Eye and Have Faith In Suspicion
Gene-Seed: None; Bio-augmetics take the place of what normally would make them Space Marines
Founding: A Crusade Fleet made up of several Space Marine Chapters
Homeworld: Golgatha, Adeptus Mechanicus Forge World
Origins: Set at the edge of the Sabbat System, on the border of the Eye of Terror, rests the Forge World of Golgatha. Life near the terrible warpstorm was hard and harsh, constantly bombarded by the foul energies of the malignant red eye. Most natual life was razed from the surrounding planets and inhabitants of these worlds could not survive without special medical care. The technomagos' of Golgatha had not only supplied the Imperium with warmachines and ammunition but had specialized in the replication and installation of bio-augmetics and other medical equipment. Thier tithes to the Emporer were valuable to the Imperium, especially to those on the border of the Eye.
During the Despoiler's 13th Black Crusade, a chunk of the massive chaos fleet was sent to "inherit" the Crucible system, including the precious forgeworld. Golgatha sent astropathic messages back to the Imperium, calling for aid as thier world was being attacked by the hordes of Chaos. Thier skittarii regiments fought deftly and bravely, but they were far too few and the hordes of Chaos decended upon the planet like hungry locusts. Most of the planet's inhabitants were either dead or forced back into the main hive city of Golgatha, The Temple of the Machine God. As the enemy invaded the factories and hive-spires of the forge-world, they began thier blasphemus, arcane rituals. Hearing the the chaos cultist's call, tendrils of the Eye reached out to engulf the entire sector itself, threatening to blanket the system in the same horrible warpstorm.
The call for aid was recieved. A Space Marine Crusuade Fleet that was massed to counter the Despoiler's 13th Black Crusade was alread enroute to the Eye of Terror. A splinter of that fleet was sent to keep Golgatha under Imperial control. This splinter Crusade fleet was made up of many Space Marine Chapters, both known and obscure, and was about the strength of three full chapters. The tendrils of the warpstorm had not yet closed the way to the sector, so the fleet braved the trecharous space inbetween the closing tendrils and made it to the sector.
The Imperial Crusade Marine splinter fleet decended on Golgatha with the wrath of avenging angels, using the advantage of surprise to cut a great swath out of the Chaos horde. Slowly their pace was stemmed by the endless multitude of cultists, heretics, and mutants. The Crusade Marines made the enemy pay for every inch of soil that they took with thier lives, but they were overwhelmed. So great was the opposition that over half of a chapter's-worth of marines were slain in the initial assault.
The Crusade Marines' advance was halted by the appearance of thier heretical, traitorus bretheren, Chaos Space Marines of the 13th Black Crusade. On thier own, they are formidable foes, but they were joined by the endless, vile hordes of the Lost and the Damned. The tide of foes were too great to withstand; the Crusade Marines were forced to withdraw thier lines and regroup at The Temple of the Machine God, the last bastion of Imperial rule on Golgatha.
Once the Crusade Marines retreated to the hive city, a deafining roar of horrible laughter rose up from the planet-swarming enemy, shaking the very earth on which they stood, as the last of the starry night sky was washed away by horrible blood-red clouds. Golgatha was now in the very grip of the Eye of Terror.
All on Golgatha felt the nasuating effects of the warp, but none more than the psykers among them. Most of the Adepts of the Astropathicus were instantly killed, thier minds melted and thier heads ruptured and exploded from the psychic shockwave; even the Librarians and Codicers of the Crusaders were driven mad by the arcane, incessant chatter in thier heads and the warp-beasts that ravaged and consumed thier minds. One Librarian was even possesed by a daemon, which had started to manifest itself. For fear of a daemon infestation, the Librarian, and all remaining psykers, were hunted down and summarily executed; they simply could not be trusted in that dark hour.
The crusaders could neither leave the planet, nor call for aid, they cut off from the rest of the Imperium by the warpstorm. The only way out was to exterminate all of the chaos filth that permated Golgatha. The Crusade Marines would pour from the hive-city, cutting mighty swathes from the enemy, only to be driven back by superior numbers that replaced thier fallen comrades. Try and try again the Crusaders would to drive the enemy away, but more and more were wounded and killed each and every assault. The Marines got into the habit of dragging thier dead back to the city, so thier bodies would not be desecrated by the filth of the enemy.
After a few months of constant attacks, the Crusaders began to weaken, thier numbers thinner each day. Fortunatly, the forge-factories for making bio-augmetics ware still in operation and a stockpile of these items had formed. In order to keep thie maimed and wounded marines at the front lines, Chaos held at bay, the Techpriests and Magos Medica had begun to implant the marines to fix thier wounds. First hands, arms, legs, eyes, then other vital organs were replaced. Thier gene-seed removed and stored, the dead Marine cadavers provided the techpriests the oportunities to experiment and find proceedures to better integrate the machine parts to the genetically altered anatomy of the Marines.
Time and time again, the same marine would be wounded and drug back from the front lines; yet another part of his body was replaced by augmetics, another piece of his armor patched and replaced; sent back out to the frontlines for another go. So much of each marine had been replaced or repaired that they began to look more like massive servitors than Space Marines. Many that died on the Medica operation tables were artificailly revived, parts and pieces of ther memories erased or eradicated from brain death.
By the sixth month of fighting, most of the Marines's power armor was chipped, scratched, dented, repaired and replaced so much that it was almost indiscernable as to which chapter the marine had belonged to. Thier bodies so heavily augmented and thier thier minds half-erased, most Marines lost any seblance of self-identity. The need for ammo, boltguns, power armor, tanks, and other weapons and wargear were so great the Marines scrounged and stole parts and pieces from thier traitorus bretheren for the Techpriests of Golgatha to reconsecrate and reconstruct to use for themselves.
The battle raged on in this way for nearly a year; the hive-city of The Temple of the Machine God reletivly unscathed and yet to be breached. Realizing the Crusade force cut was down to under a Chapter's-worth of Marines, the Chaos Marine Lord in charge of the vile legion personally led a massive siege and assault of the hive-city. The walls and battlements collapsed under the force of the assault and much of the hive was put to flame and destruction. The Crusade marines met the assault in the inner walls of the hive, the Commander of the Crusade force and the Chaos Lord clashing in a fierce and dramatic personal duel. The Chaos Lord dealt the Commander a lethal blow with his power weapon, but with the last ounce of his strength the Comander swung his own power sword, rending the Chaos Lord's head from his shoulders.
Demoralized from the loss of its leader, the Chaos attack crumbled and began to retreat. The Marines systematically began to eradicate all chaos from the planet, including the culists who were still performing the ritual. Once slain, the Eye of Terror released its grip on the world and the blood-red sky faded back to its original starry night sky.
The Commander was almost totally lost but the Techpriests of Golgatha were able to augment his wounds and revive him. During this brief period of death, the Commander had a vision of the God-Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne, his face was that of the Machina Opus, half man, half machine. He was the shining example of the perfect being, the strength of flesh and steel combined in perfectly balanced unison; the Emperor and Machine-God were one; the Omnissiah. Yet all around this perfect being, Chaos was slowly rotting and eating away at the base of the golden throne and creeping towards the stoic figure seated there, who cried blood frim his human eye, oil from his mechanical one. The Commander vowed that he would not allow Chaos to destroy his perfect and complete God.
Having become almost more machine than marine, having no self-identity and not even remembering which chapters they came from the remaining Marines decided to combine into one Chapter and rededicated themselves to the Emperor/Omnissiah. They named themselves the Sons of the Forge, in reverence of thier cybernetic savior, the one who shaped them in his own image. The Commander also rededicated himself, learning about the Machine God from the Techpriests, eventually gaining the status of a Techmarine in the eyes of the Cult Mechanicus.
Currently, the Sons of the Forge continue to zealously hunt down thier traitorous brethren, annihilating them with mechanical presision, and cleansing the machine spirits of their tainted wargear and vehicles so that they may serve the Omnissiah once more. Being heavily augmetic beings, their squad leaders are trained not only in the ways Cult Mechanicus, but also in the Medica Biologos, to be able to repair and maintian both flesh and steel.
It sounds good, but I doubt it is possible since the space marines tend to have so much pride and are so connected to their chapter and its beliefs that sometimes they refuse to even fight together. There is little chance that they would give up all connection to their founding chapters. The Crusade force is good ,however, if it was a forge world how could they be running out of amunition and guns.
Necorn Work In Progress Click Link
Wow, I didn't think I'd even get a response...lol
Anyways, to address your questions Deek,Basically, these Crusade Marines have been fighting hordes and hordes of Chaos, including CSM and minor daemons for over a year straight, cutoff from the Imperial Fleets on a planet that was engulfed by the Eye of Terror warpstorm; they've been pretty roughed up, even by Marine standards.Originally Posted by Deek
There were no reserves coming, they needed every man and espiecially every marine they had, but more and more of them were being maimed or slain every day. What could the Techpriest do? Thier job: repair the marines with augmetics. The same marine would sustain many wounds, ge them either healed or replaced, and be sent out to the front lines again, to recieve more wounds, come back and have those repaired, healed, or replaced so that he go go back to the front lines again...etc, etc. Many times the marines would have lost conciousness or went into brain-death, but were revived by the Medica's equipment, but loosing part and pieces of their memories, pieces of themselves. Some might have had thier brains directly injured and so a piece of circutry would replace the neural pathways that were broken.
Basically, the idea is by the time the year was through...these guys were more like servitors than marines, many barely having any sentience at all...(they had become one with the Machines!) Not only are thier minds blurred, but a years worth of intense fighting would strip most of, if not all of the paint/coloring from your armor. Put those two together and you really wouldnt have a clear idea of which Chapter you might have belonged to. With that, tack on a zealous leader that had a revaltion through a vision of the Omnissiah who says (truthfully) the only reason that youre alive is because of the machines that the Omnissiah gave you...I'd think you'll listen. The Cult Mechanicus' Omnissiah doesn't directly go against the Cult Imperialis, so there wouldnt be too much trouble shifting thier belief structure to accomidate the Machine-side of the God Emperor.
I don't see whats so unbelivable about that...
As for the guns and ammo... the Forge world did produce those, but that was the entire planet. Now the Imperials are down to one hive-city and the stockpiles therein. The only real factories that were in the hive city were the ones that made augmetics. After a year worth of intense everyday fighting, your ammo supplies would run dry, your vehicles destroyed or in disrepair, and pieces of your armor dented/chopped/mangled/burned beyond repair. You'd need to get them somehow...
Anyways, thats my view...
Any other takers???
I actually quite liked that story, I am sure some purists could find a number of problems with it (i.e one of the gene seed implants allows for the black solid rib "shield" thats connects to the power armour) but who cares I liked the idea of marines so caught up in a war they had basically become a living weapon.
I think they would be a one off though as in they wouldn't get any replacements (in a way they are all dreadnoughts!)
Last edited by Visitor Q; February 20th, 2006 at 16:57.
LOL I like that thought Berny Mac, that they were all kinda sorta like small dreadnaughts. They were meant to have some staying power, therefore being able to survive longer to deal more death. I've picked the two most defensive traits in the SM Codex: Scions of Mars, which allows me to repair vehicles, and Purity Above All which allows me to "repair"/save my infantry. I'm trying to keep as many models on the board as possible! (Heck, if it were possible, I'd LOVE to give each and every infantry unit the Bionics rules. LOL Then theyd really be hard to kill.)Originally Posted by Berny Mac
My fluff is that my marines are so heavily augmented that thier sergeants have to be trained not only to be an apothacary, but a techmarine too to keep both halves of thier troops in working order. Techmarine sergeants that "fix" thier own trrops in the mddle of battle!!! Just think of it!
The one problem I've had with this idea is: Where are they going to get more recruits??? Each marine is made even more durable, but a Las-Cannon, missile launcher, or melta to the face ain't gonna be able to simply be "replaced." I wanted them to pull from other Space Marine thralls, ones that went through most of the marine implantations, jsut never made it through the whole thing, so theyre almost marines anyways...just give them a augmetic boost or two and theyre jsut as good as a regular marine...just an idea...
Thanks to all who have relied and will reply in the future!
As to where they get recruits from just say they don't! There initial numbers could be more than 1000 as the original crusade was made up of a number of Chapters. Unless they are obliterated in battle they are virtually immortal.
Aside from some stylistic quibbles of mine that I can PM you about, the basic idea is quite decent, and a marvellous spin on the idea of a Mechanicus-based chapter. However, I would like to pick up on a few things.
Mechanical augmentation. How far does this go? You talk about restructuring brains and so on thanks to the skills of the technomagi, but they would refuse to do it. To do such a thing without just creating a servitor (without the reactions and so on needed for a space marine function as they do) would go against their beliefs to a huge degree. Not to mention the huge chemical balance within a marine that would need to be kept stable even with the introduction of many nonorganic components.
Unidentifiable chapters. This has already been talked about, but I'd like to add another dimension; to dishonour a marine's armour my obscuring the "sacred colours of the legion" (direct quote from Sigismund, the first Emperor's Champion, replace legion with chapter) would be doing the armour's machine spirit a gross disservice. This is something that the tech-priests AND the marines would get uppity about, at least before they get lobotomised, and even then there're the tech-priests to make a fuss. And that because of the sacred nature of their armour, a marine with any sentience at all would be maintaining it as well as he could, to appease its machine spirit.
The commander. This is more or less unworkable given that you talk of using marines from many different chapters in the crusade. If there were many of them, why on earth would they only have one commander? Chapters are fiercely independent, and many don't like giving their authority over to another at all, particularly one who hasn't proved himself (as this would have been, because you mention that most of the chapters involved in the crusade are obscure).
Getting offworld. You've stated that all the psykers of the crusade were killed, which would include Navigators. How would they ever leave the planet, as you explicitly say they can't call for aid?But normal sergeants aren't trained to be apothecaries, why should these ones be, particuarly? I know you can argue that they need to tend to their fallen brethren more, but you could phrase it a bit better; official Apothecarium training involves extraction of geneseed and the administration of the "Emperor's mercy" (bolt round to the head) for those that are suffering too much. Your circumstances make neither of those viable propositions.Originally Posted by Son Of The Forge
That and techmarines are trained at Mars before they receive their status, you can't claim that the sergeants act as techmarines until they've been trained fully in the ways of the Machine God.No they wouldn't be almost marines, as marine training involves psychoindoctrination and hypnotherapy, generally only administered once the implantation process is complete. And if bionics made "almost marines", why on earth don't the Guard do that as standard practice? It would be more efficient. My guess is that bionics aren't that good. And thralls would be a weird thing to have on a warzone... wouldn't they be easy targets? Plus the fact that many thralls would not be enhanced at all, as those who either fail the tests or reject the geneseed tend to end up dead or mewling and/or psychotic heaps of flesh.Originally Posted by Son Of The Forge
Most of this abseloutely rocks, but I just have a few reservations.While this isn't a bad thing in itself.. But remember that, in actuality, chaos space marines only fight in small warbands. There really aren't that many of them, and they're valuable as hell.. They're the last resort, the sign that chaos is prepared to expend anything to achieve its goals.Originally Posted by Son Of The Forge
Generally.. the pattern seems to be to have a tiny group of chaos marines leading armies. The CSM codex reflects the extremely rare occasion that they deploy together.
Of course, different fluff writers do different things. Some do expend chaos marine lives as random antagonists, but, for the sake of believability, I'd suggest not. If they were deploying and dying every day, there'd be none left very quickly.If gene seed could be removed and stored without killing a marine, don't you think more chapters would have started doing it, instead of putting the apothecaries and geneseed at risk on the front line?Originally Posted by Son Of The Forge
If gene seed could be removed and stored without killing a marine, don't you think more chapters would have started doing it, instead of putting the apothecaries and geneseed at risk on the front line?
Geneseed can and usually is removed without killing the marine. It specifically says that its ripe for removal some 10-20 years after implantation, and i'd imagine they usually remove it asap. The apothecaries go to the front lines to do battlefield repairs on marines who have taken serious injuries. Their job is to keep as many marines as possible alive to take them back to the chapter and get them proper attention. They can extract geneseed on the battlefield from the younger brethren that fall, but they don't actually have to wait for the marines to die. Just in case though they can extract geneseed from the dead marines(who are obviously quite young if they still have their geneseed). Thing is the apothecaries are going to be at risk on the frontlines anyway and to not use a fully tarined and indoctrinated marine for teh first 20 years of tehir servive would be a gross waste of chapter resources.Kinda minor details, i know in a real working 40k universe this would be a mjor deal but on the whole these are fluff details that don't even really need to be dealy with.Mechanical augmentation. How far does this go? You talk about restructuring brains and so on thanks to the skills of the technomagi, but they would refuse to do it. To do such a thing without just creating a servitor (without the reactions and so on needed for a space marine function as they do) would go against their beliefs to a huge degree. Not to mention the huge chemical balance within a marine that would need to be kept stable even with the introduction of many nonorganic components.Agreeable here, but keep in mind that they may have been doing all that they can but in teh havoc of a years worth of war they just lost track of things. The slaying of the Emperor's enemies, especially the traitors is first an foremost among all marine beliefs, and if the circumstances come to the point where you only have time to fight then the marines servive to the emperor comes before his servive to the chapter or hsi equipment. Both his armor and his chapter were made to die in servive of the emperor as him so i think they'll understand.Unidentifiable chapters. This has already been talked about, but I'd like to add another dimension; to dishonour a marine's armour my obscuring the "sacred colours of the legion" (direct quote from Sigismund, the first Emperor's Champion, replace legion with chapter) would be doing the armour's machine spirit a gross disservice. This is something that the tech-priests AND the marines would get uppity about, at least before they get lobotomised, and even then there're the tech-priests to make a fuss. And that because of the sacred nature of their armour, a marine with any sentience at all would be maintaining it as well as he could, to appease its machine spirit.Facts are in war commanders die. Its been shown in both the armaggedon and the eye of terror campaigns that marines from one chapter are often put under the command of another chapters commanders soley for the purpose of better organization(Dante, Helbrecht and Calgar come to mind). Understandably this commander may not have proven himself yet but if he was the only commander left and he had been a real hero on the present battlefield there is no reason marines wouldn't follow him. And as he said not all thhe chapters were obscure.The commander. This is more or less unworkable given that you talk of using marines from many different chapters in the crusade. If there were many of them, why on earth would they only have one commander? Chapters are fiercely independent, and many don't like giving their authority over to another at all, particularly one who hasn't proved himself (as this would have been, because you mention that most of the chapters involved in the crusade are obscure).If the imperials sent thousands of marines to a battlefield during a war they would go back and check up on how they had done even if they hadn't had any communications with them after the war. Therefore we can assume that eventually there would be some search and rescue parties.Getting offworld. You've stated that all the psykers of the crusade were killed, which would include Navigators. How would they ever leave the planet, as you explicitly say they can't call for aid?The sergeants aren'y full techmarines, they just have received some basic training on how to repair their buddies from the forge world they defended. I'm sure the AM wouldn't begrude sharing a little technical know-how with some marines that saved one of their forgeworlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of The Forge
My fluff is that my marines are so heavily augmented that thier sergeants have to be trained not only to be an apothacary, but a techmarine too to keep both halves of thier troops in working order.
But normal sergeants aren't trained to be apothecaries, why should these ones be, particuarly? I know you can argue that they need to tend to their fallen brethren more, but you could phrase it a bit better; official Apothecarium training involves extraction of geneseed and the administration of the "Emperor's mercy" (bolt round to the head) for those that are suffering too much. Your circumstances make neither of those viable propositions.
That and techmarines are trained at Mars before they receive their status, you can't claim that the sergeants act as techmarines until they've been trained fully in the ways of the Machine God.Again agreeable, but wherever SM's go tehy bring their thralls, and their thralls are most definately not easy targets, their still more than human, and quite zealous. I believeSotF is referring to the thralls who almost made indoctrination but didn't quite make it, or ahven't made it yet. Scouts if you will. These men could easily be brought up to SM standards physically with bionics and training(keep in mind that whilst bionics may not make you super-human they certyainly keep you super-human, as marines with them don't lose much). Most of teh training practices and psychotherapy, chemical therapy, etc is still quite plausible to use with this chapter, the only hitch is that they don't have a geneseed. And as much as thats a big thing to get around it could be surmissed that this chapter isn't necessarily permanent. They will fight and be repaired as often as possible until they are all dead, which could be many centuries from now. Their home chpaters will replace their losses and these marines can form an extra force around the eye of terror for the time being, something the Imperials are never opposed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of The Forge
I wanted them to pull from other Space Marine thralls, ones that went through most of the marine implantations, jsut never made it through the whole thing, so theyre almost marines anyways...just give them a augmetic boost or two and theyre jsut as good as a regular marine...just an idea...
No they wouldn't be almost marines, as marine training involves psychoindoctrination and hypnotherapy, generally only administered once the implantation process is complete. And if bionics made "almost marines", why on earth don't the Guard do that as standard practice? It would be more efficient. My guess is that bionics aren't that good. And thralls would be a weird thing to have on a warzone... wouldn't they be easy targets? Plus the fact that many thralls would not be enhanced at all, as those who either fail the tests or reject the geneseed tend to end up dead or mewling and/or psychotic heaps of flesh
Last edited by Sabe; February 20th, 2006 at 21:36.
Nevermore Chapter: 6200 pts; 97/49/11; Longest Streak: 9 Wins/4 Losses; Nearing Completion
Wow, never thought I'd this type of responses...thought it would be immedatly flamed or something...LOL Thanks for acutally reading that whole chunk of text and actually analyzing it, coming up with some GREAT constructive critizisim.
Anyways, Xerxes, to address your comments:
Mechanical Augmentation: How far does it go? Well how mechanically augmented are servitors? Thats how far. I don't really think that the techpriests would baulk at the idea of implanting the marines to keep them alive (and the techpriests kept safe from Chaos), even to the point of making them servitors. I dont see how that would go against thier beliefs, the Cult Mechanicus. They worship the knowledge provided to them by the STC's and ritualize the making and operation of such technologies. The augmetics are being produced by an STC constructed factory, and theyre just putting those augmetics to good use.
Unidentifiable Chapters: Yes, of course a marine respects his armor and wargear as much as he values his own life and the life of the rest of his battle brothers. They respect thier chapters and their primarchs even more so. But, at least in my thinking, a years worth of non-stop fighting on a Chaos infested planet in the grasp of the Eye of Terror warpstorm would be harsh, even by a marine's standards. Im not imagining them defacing thier wargear and armor...it was already defaced by a years worth of constant battle, thier minds defaced by the lobotomization the techpriests perfermed on them. They simply cant remember where they came from, and theyre armor doesnt do much to teel them either. Whats left to do? Follow your commander, who says that you and your battle brothers should rededicate yourselves to the God-Emperor for creating you, and the Machine God for reshaping you. The wargear and armor would be rededicated along with the marines as well, the techpriests would be more than happy to do that.
Yes, many marines would look down on these so called "traitors of thier chapter", but thats exactly what I want. I want there to be a bit of mystery, are the Sons of the Forge accepable to the Imperium's eyes??? They call themselves a Chapter, but they really arent one yet, They need approval from the High Lords of Terra to be accepted as a new chapter. they need to prove themselves an their loyalites.
The Commander: Chapters, yes, are fiercely independant, but they have worked with each other many times before. Somebody had to be in charge of the Crusade marines, organizing them into one cohesive force. Why not a commander from one of the more legendary chapters? Ive kept the name of the chapters secret because i didnt want to name where these marines got their gene-seed from...who's second founding it was. The creation of this chapter is supposed to be as highly un-orthodox as possible, while still being plauseable.
Getting Offworld: This is a part of the story I forgot to mention and just kinda skipped over, but I had that in my head. Your right, they cant get offworld, not without the astropaths to guide them. They have to wait for the Imperial fleet to come and rescue them, providing them with either transportation directly or with astropaths to navigate thier ships. In the mean time, they've worked on rededicaing themselves, and thier wargear, to the Machine God aspect of the Emperor, many learning to be techmarines and apothacaries in one. (Im using techmarine models for my apothacary sergeants...theyre "fixing" thier battle brothers in the middle of battle...LOL Thought it was a cool idea...)
As for the thralls idea...it was just that...an idea...Im not sure as to how they recruit...maybe as Berny Mac had said...maybe they dont really need to...at least for awhile.
I think Sabe had said it best...using the Neopyhtes of any chapter that didnt make the cut but still want to be marines.
Or another idea...my guys are supposed to be zealous Chaos hunters, what about them recruiting from rouge (not traitor) Chapters (or pieces thereof) that they had hunted down, but found no taint in them, welcoming them back into the fold of the Imperium by haveing them join the Chapter...either that or death...which would you choose? Again another idea.
The_Giant_Mantis, I meant the CSM's to be the elite of the Chaos forces, thats why they only appear after the LatD are getting owned by the Crusaders. They tip the scales and help overwhelm the loyalists and push them back to their Hive city. Sorry if the wording was confusing on this matter.
And another bad wording...the marines with thier gene-seed removed are in fact dead, never to be revived. They just provided the Magos Biologos a map to the confusing anatomy of the marines, so they can do more intricate augmentations, keeping more marines alive and on the bettle-field so that the techpriests themselves dont have to pick up a lasgun and bayonet and charge into the frontlines. Thats not thier forte. I think its reasonalbe to believe that they'll do pracitally anything within thier belief structure to keep from being front-line cannon fodder. If that means making marines into gigantic servitors...so be it...
Anyways, thanks to you all for your wonderful comments...made me really think about my fluff just that much more!!! Please keep them coming!