Just wanted to put in my personal opinion on the Emperor, just want to say - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member GenericGuy's Avatar
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    Just wanted to put in my personal opinion on the Emperor, just want to say

    I know that there are always hordes of people arguing about who's the most powerful being in warhammer 40k. Eldrad has some serious psychic muscle, but the hive mind or the tyranids is much more powerful than he. But the gods of chaos are possibly the most powerful of all, being the foremost powers in the warp. Or the C'tan who march onwards to destroy all of existance. People can go and debate this all they want, but I want to bring three facts which, in my opinion, make the Emperor the most powerful force in 40k. This is just what i'd like to put out, and see if people see any truth in my thoughts.

    1. When he dies, he is reborn, or is so generally accepted.
    2. When th Emperor prospers, so does the Empire. ex: During the time he is in power, there is a golden age.
    3. He almost took out the Chaos gods with horus.

    The reason he isn't so powerful and the imperium arent doing so well is because instead of letting him die, he lies comatose, but alive, all humanity gone from the dead bag of flesh. The imperium is alive, but has sacrificed their humanity to keep it that way. Untill they let the Emperor go, the imperium will be in a sick and twisted paradox of life. The Emperor's existance ensures the safety of the race. If he was alive, there would be equilibrium, that probably would need to be kept by destroying the Chaos gods, or for the least part, Tzeench.

    I beleive Tzeench pulled the strings to cause Horus to fall to chaos, much like the article about "The truth about the Horus Heresy". I beleive that they saw it from that perspective, and the Imperium saw it the way GW wrote it. Tzeench came in, saw the Emperor, and decided that for his plans, the guy has got to be eliminated as a threat. This seems likely, as in WFRP fluff, the Emperor supposedly attained divine powers by following a Lord of change into the rift at the north pole, attempting to kill it off, but ended up gaining immortality. And as i see the two games intertwined heavily, this seems like the most likely answer.

    I would like sone critical thought on the manner, but not a flamewar about who's the most powerful, or whether the Imperium or the Horus group was right. Just impassive speculation on what i have gleaned.

    Last edited by GenericGuy; March 22nd, 2006 at 06:52.
    "Slannesh, in his drug filled excacy thinks Khorne is like... the coolaid man who keeps slapping him and calling him a muskrat... weird, huh?" Said by me, the all powerful GenericGuy.

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  3. #2
    LO's unofficial Jester Visitor Q's Avatar
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    Man there have been dozens of these kinds of threads over the past few weeks (I have to admit i am guilty of continuing half of them). Personally I don't think this thread is going to go anywhere. Basically yes the emperor is powerful but so is every race. Basically GW puts so some really powerful things in every race that allows people to argue that their race will win. Personally I think the Imperium is the most powerful but it doesn't really matter because it is an opinion in the purest sense of the word- it can be argued wither way.

    I don't think it is possible to have this kind of discussion without it turingin into a never ending debate about who is more powerful but any way to answer your questions

    Well for starters little is known about the Emperor sources differ If you go old School with Realms of Chaos (which some people dodn't like) then yes the Emperor represents the best hope for humanity if he can become reborn however the Chaos Gods are still more powerful than the emperor by a long way and the emperor was never close to destroying them)

    The Emperor probably couldn't destroy chaos just by his pure power (though he could limit their influence in the material world which would be a big victory for humanity).

    As for your last point Prehaps it was all Tzeentchs plan who knows this just speculation. As for the WFRP reference you are a bit confused first you must be referring to Sigmar. This background comes from Empire in Flames where Sigmar chased a Lord of Change through a warp gate which had opened in a Dwarven Keep not the North Pole. This background is disputed as again there are many different sources as to Sigmars origin and dissapearance (though it does come from a first hand source) that said much in WFRP has been changed by GW so it is a case of what version of "official" background do you belive.
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  4. #3
    Son of LO darkreever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericGuy
    1. When he dies, he is reborn, or is so generally accepted.
    2. When th Emperor prospers, so does the Empire. ex: During the time he is in power, there is a golden age.
    3. He almost took out the Chaos gods with horus.

    The reason he isn't so powerful and the imperium arent doing so well is because instead of letting him die, he lies comatose, but alive, all humanity gone from the dead bag of flesh. The imperium is alive, but has sacrificed their humanity to keep it that way.
    There is truth in what you say, but at the same time you do not seem to be looking at the grand picture of some of the reasons the emperor remains as he is.

    Remember, that because the emperor is now revered as a god some do beieve he can be reborn when he dies. Some of those believers include some of the High Lords of Terra who 'interprate' the will of the emperor.
    The fact that he did combat the vessel/embodiment of the chaos gods is one of the starting points of his 'ascension' to god-hood.

    There are several reasons the emperor has not let his life extibguish itself. The most well known by most is that his will powers the psychic shield protecting humanity from the chaos gods. He goes and he may end up taking humanity with him. There is also the fact that during the siege Horus unleashed legions of daemons upon terra herself. The emperor stood as the beacon of power that holds the rift on terra closed to the warp and thus keeps daemons off of the holiest world of the imperium.

    Another, more or less radical reason is because he is still reconciling over what he had to do aboard Horus's battlebarge. Remember that for all his power, influence, and responsibility he still had to kill his own son to ensure the safety of an empire of innocent people.

    The insults about him are pretty true, he is now a carcass given the title of god. In 10000 years he has become more and more reclusive to his own people. Resigned to the atrocities he has commited and the things he has had to do to himself so less will suffer...

    Berny Mac, your probably right that this thread wont end well.

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  5. #4
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericGuy
    1. When he dies, he is reborn, or is so generally accepted.
    No real evidence which isn't ancient or which hasn't been dropped like a stone by GW at a later date.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenericGuy
    3. He almost took out the Chaos gods with horus.
    Not really, he forced them to relinquish their possession of him, this does not mean he nearly destroyed them. Had they stayed, it's possible they would have been destroyed, but there's no evidence it was anything other than a calculated decision on their part to let Horus go and ensure their own safety. Like any daemon, the Chaos gods are severely weakened when acting in the physical realm. It may well have been Horus' own limitations which led to the Emperor defeating them.


    Quote Originally Posted by GenericGuy
    The imperium is alive, but has sacrificed their humanity to keep it that way. Untill they let the Emperor go, the imperium will be in a sick and twisted paradox of life.
    Why was there any more humanity in the Imperium when the Emperor was alive than now, when he is dead? The situation was very much the same, except that humanity was actually gaining ground by losing those millions of lives every day in battle. It was not a golden age at all, it was still a state of total war and unquestioning service to an ideal, the ideal merely happened to be alive and walking around.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenericGuy
    I beleive Tzeench pulled the strings to cause Horus to fall to chaos, much like the article about "The truth about the Horus Heresy". I beleive that they saw it from that perspective, and the Imperium saw it the way GW wrote it.
    Why is Tzeentch in particular so important. Horus did not worship Tzeentch, he worshipped chaos undivided. It stands to reason therefore that, when he fell, it was due to the actions of all the chaos gods, not just one. They all had a say in influencing him.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenericGuy
    And as i see the two games intertwined heavily, this seems like the most likely answer.
    Evidence.. Besides some obscure black library stuff which was clearly thrown in to double the audience of one of their books, and the old Rogue trader fluff which is no longer remotely dependable. There is abseloutely no evidence anywhere that there is any connection at all between Warhammer and 40k.

  6. #5
    Member GenericGuy's Avatar
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    Sorry, i've been regretting putting this thread up about 15 minuites later. Just sometimes i'm so bored, i just do stuff like that.
    "Slannesh, in his drug filled excacy thinks Khorne is like... the coolaid man who keeps slapping him and calling him a muskrat... weird, huh?" Said by me, the all powerful GenericGuy.

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  7. #6
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericGuy
    Sorry, i've been regretting putting this thread up about 15 minuites later. Just sometimes i'm so bored, i just do stuff like that.
    Hey, it's no problem.. I didn't mean to sound so aggressive about it all, to be honest. I just didn't have a lot of time to post, so I think it came out quite abrupt. You made it clear in the title that you were talking about your personal opinion, so, to be honest, all my talk of evidence was a little ill chosen.

    It's an interesting idea, but hey, when you post an idea you're going to get some disagreement. I guess I was just one of the people who disagreed. I've just heard a few too many posts about how awesome the Emperor was, how much better everything was when he was alive, how he's going to come back and kill the chaos gods, etc, none of which I think is really that well supported.

    So yeah, sorry. I should have been more polite. Don't let me put you off.. this is what the fluff forum is for, after all.
    Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; March 24th, 2006 at 04:08.

  8. #7
    Senior Member JuliusGaiusCaesar's Avatar
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    As for the part about Tzeentch, its partly true I think. I think that the chaos gods as a whole came together and wanted Horus on their side, but Tzeentch was the one who probably convinced him to come over to chaos. After all, what are you more likely to side with? A bloody god of murder and death, a god of nastiness and disgusting odor, a god of insanely creepy pleasure, or a god of little voices in your head, slowly drawing you closer and closer, corrupting your mind with lies and brainwashing? Tzeentch probably played the largest role in Horus's betrayal.
    The thing to understand is that chaos is not a forcing power. Chaos evokes your inner emotions. A soul with greed, lust, hatred, or treason will fall to chaos because they let themselves.
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  9. #8
    Senior Member The Daywalker's Avatar
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    Tzeentch was probably what turned Horus to chaos by himself. Horus was wounded and recovering at Davin, since he was weak and unprotected he couldnt fight the voices in his head telling him what to do. So it was Tzeentch who led to the fall of the primarchs.


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  10. #9
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    I just don't see how 'voices in head' instantly equates to 'Tzeentch.'

    All the chaos powers and their daemonic servants can be persuasive, they feed on human desires, after all. Each promises something, though with varying degrees of subtlelty, and they doubtless know exactly what mortals crave and want. Tzeentch is just the most subtle of them.

  11. #10
    Member GenericGuy's Avatar
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    The way i mean, was that Tzeench probably manipulated events so both sides thought they were loyalist unil Horus fell to chaos.
    "Slannesh, in his drug filled excacy thinks Khorne is like... the coolaid man who keeps slapping him and calling him a muskrat... weird, huh?" Said by me, the all powerful GenericGuy.

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